Mm.

'Cause I was, like, so buried in debt.

I had this weight of $100,000 in student loans.

I was living in my parents' basement, where, like, the roof wasn't even complete.

It was just, like...

I, and I was just surrounded by a bunch of crap, like a bunch of stuff that I had that, that I didn't really find meaning, a closet filled with clothes that I didn't use.

And then it was, you know, I was just, like, online and came across a couple blogs that were talking about this thing called minimalism, which was the intentional pursuit of less.

Mm.

So, how have you managed to keep that passion alive and to actually enjoy it, even though now it is work? Obviously, it still is your hobby, it still is what you enjoy, but I think it's all too easy for hobbies to become just another job.

Yeah, and it did.

And I haven't always been perfect at that.

And it's something that I've struggled with off and on as a creator.

I think there is the reality, no matter, typically, no matter how many subscribers you have, that like, yeah, you have to pay the bills.

And, you know, it's like very few people are fortunate enough to make enough money that they never have to work again.

There are a few creators that can say that, but I think for the rest of us, it's like partly you do need to pay the bills.

And yeah, I mean, just yeah, where you were at on that day.