Mathias Döpfner

And there are different types of, uh, right across Europe.

Uh, so just before I ask Anne to take it away and tell us her story of what she found when she went there last week, just to say what- because we spent a lot of time, and people will just link this to Nigel Farage and Reform UK and ask how they, uh, how they, uh, interact, what is Reform and Nigel's view of, of AFD? Well, in an interview with, uh, Axel Springer chief Mathias Döpfner, uh, in April this year, he was asked, and he says that the AFD is a mixed bag.

He said that, uh, he had sat with some of them in the European Parliament and they'd done good work, uh, and some of them are friends, uh, but there are key dividing lines between him and them.

Uh, he really dislikes AFD's pro-Putin stance, uh, and their associations with regimes, not only Russia, but China and Iran, uh, as well, being very, very difficult for him.

That was a very popular podcast.

But I think in that particular group, I would single out Mathias Döpfner because, you know, he was then owner of Axel Springer, a global media brand based in Germany, but with global pretensions, and he bought Politico.

But then, of course, he's now the new owner of The Daily Telegraph, and so I'd say that was a bit prescient.

Nein? Noch nicht? Was?

But he's been quite critical probing on the Reform and its weaknesses, particularly on policy.

And I do think that, I...

Sorry, I do not believe that Mathias Döpfner is directing a change.

But I do think that, um, certain columnists and editors have, um, sniffed the breeze and are slightly adjusting, because Mathias Döpfner is definitely no friend of the far right and no f- no friend of, um, r-right wing nationalist parties.