Um, maybe, Martina, I can ask you, uh, is it possible to build a comprehensive framework around this in a way that is easier to deal with?

I mean, we've definitely seen the attempt to build a framework with the TCFD, uh, recommendations, right, and now also the adoption of the climate risk reporting here in Australia as well.

Um, so I think that's definitely provided a starting point where organizations, you know, are exposed to different categories of risks and are, um, guided, I think, also through, um, you know, a, a process to actually assess those risks, right? Looking into the physical risk, looking into the transition risk, looking into other types of risk factors.

Um, but I think importantly also changing their outlook towards the future, right? This reporting is no longer about past performance and past financial risk, right? It's really around assessing what is going to be happening going forward, right? How does our exposure look like to climate change when we factor in different types of climate scenarios? And f- in my, in my view, this is, um, the most interesting part of the reporting exercise, but I think also the most challenging to actually implement, right? Because it does require a lot of expertise in really understanding the climate risks and the modeling as well, and, um, that is not necessarily expertise, um, that has, you know, traditionally been held by companies or, you know, that was, that was traditionally factored in.

There's certainly, um, at this point still a lot of sense-making going on around how to best do it, and I think also a lot of uncertainty around, you know, how do we best do it, and how do we make these scenarios that sometimes seem very abstract, how do we actually make them tangible? How can we operationalize them for the company, right? What do, what do they mean for specific sectors and locations, for specific assets and so on? And there's all sorts of different ways, you know, to, to downscale them.

But more importantly, um, you know, it, it is really forcing, I think, this exposure to, okay, we, we will have a changed reality.

You know, we no longer have business as usual.

Um, you, you can show where all the risks are, but what are you actually doing about it? Can you tell me a little bit from your perspective, what does real resilience look like?