the ocean, right?

Right.

The place to start is to think about what actually is a cyber attack.

So I'm afraid we'll have to go into a theoretical metaphorical conversation.

Cybercrime is an economic crime.

This is where we start, that the attacker believes that they're going to get value from their target if in excess of the value of the resources that they have to expend to get in there.

So it's clearest in a cybercrime attack, if someone's going into your systems to steal data, it's because they think that they can get money from reselling that data And in fact, they're going to have an easier and more profitable life by working as a hacker, hacking into systems than they would flipping burgers or something similar.

do anything.

Was there a moment that made you realise that you needed to be more mindful about that? And are you able to talk

about it? There's been many, many moments, to be honest.

So if I go back and sort of look at many of the reasons, well, the first one was after having children.

I realized I was really piling on the pounds.

I mean, like really, really needed to do something about it.

So that was when I started running.

But I didn't run particularly far or particularly fast, but it really helped with weight management.

What do you recommend?

It was Martin Lee, James Trotman winning the junior doubles at Wimbledon.

Yeah.

It was, it, it's probably still one of my best memories.

It's, um...

I remember we were in the changing rooms, um, and the, the old changing rooms were sort of under Court 2, um, the old Court 2.

And we're in the changing rooms, and Barkers-- We're just sort of warming up.

We're probably going on in about 10 minutes' time, and Barkers walks in and, and we're sort of...

You know, what have you got to say about Arthur Fry?