But not only did Joseph and Emma and their four-month-old twins come to move in with the Johnsons, but Sidney and Phoebe had six children, and they come down, and they are given a small other place to live, right?

There's a little log home across the street where the Rigdons are put in.

The Smiths are actually taken into this big, nice home.

Those who are blessed with financial resources are in a better position to help.

Joseph and the Johnson family are one of those.

They've done very well with their dairy.

And Emma has some connections there as well because she's a dairy maid.

... and they've grabbed him, the bed is that close to the door, and yanked him outside.

What are the key conditions or structures that you try to put in place so staff can genuinely grow in their practice?

So it's a complex area.

I think having very clear...

Well, I suppose the foundations have to be in having a clear understanding and sense of standards of what effective teaching looks like in a school.

So either having a pedagogical model or even basing it on the national professional teaching standards or wherever you might go to find a very clear articulation of what you're wanting for a teacher in terms of the baseline, using that as a way of recruiting, but also retaining staff and making staff understand that's your expectation and having very high expectations of teachers.

uh having very clear um once you have a foundation in in or an agreement as to that base level it's finding opportunities for them to inquire into their practice or develop and that really requires an openness within the classroom culture um in big schools and pembroke is a big school It's about making sure the classroom doors are open and you're not working in silos.

And one of the things we've worked really hard in here, I would say that Pembroke has been a little bit like the gates have been a bit closed maybe to other schools and the broader educational community, making sure they're widely open, that we're telling our story about teacher quality and we're giving back to the broader educational community has been a big feature.

Do you think that the people willing to take on a principalship has diminished over the years? Do you think that's always been there or do you think that's something that is more and more becoming apparent that we need to do more to support people to take that final step into their leadership development in schools?