How did you learn about scaling in that first successful startup?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

I like how you articulated it.

So Eloqua, which ended up becoming a big success and it went public and Oracle bought it for about a billion dollars.

But I mean, it was a mess for a long time.

I mean, I started it out of the Bain Toronto office along with... a guy who was my university housemate who also ended up at Bain with me, and a third fellow to do the development.

It started, the big idea, and this was, it started late 90s, where I was doing Salesforce effectiveness cases.

And I'll give you a great

So I totally get it.

It makes sense.

And it's because of this move the meter.

They really move the meter and it makes them feel more important and valued and all of that.

And then the third thing is that they improve their life because of the advocacy that they do.

So when you have those three elements in place, people's advocacy just goes nuts.

They'll do five or 10 times more than they normally would.

So as you work with founders, do you see relationship capital fitting into a company getting to product market fit faster or getting funding faster? What do you think some of the big levers are?