How long have you been involved with the ANA?

Well, I first started, I always was attending the fun show and I always got there early enough because I used to do the show only for a single day at the time.

And when I would get there and that stuff, I would have conversations with their treasurer, Polly Abbott.

And I was trying to say, well, I'm up here.

Do you need help in the back setting up? And their board was always a working board.

And she said, if you want to help in the back, you need to run for the board.

So I started running for the board and I got hooked.

What are your thoughts on that? You know, it's like, is that, Does that really serve the NA well? Do you think that's something that, I don't know if you've ever even given it much thought, but it really is unique as far as nonprofits.