What do we do? Or how should we think about solving that piece?

right she's she's she's sticky right and first just speaking to the point at hand when you're doing yeah around eight to ten is often considered something of a no man's land for people to do what i do because at that point you're neither fish nor foul right you're not getting the level of individualization and customization where you can fairly promote it as personal training though some people do some people do we do small group personal training in groups of 50 Never more than 50 people, small group personal training, right? 50 individual programs.

It's a little harder to pull off, right? And then you're not to your point getting necessarily the benefit of it, right? So I would say there's probably two different scenarios.

The one is you've built the model from day one.

It's going to cap out at eight or 10.

And maybe you're calling it small group personal training.

And again, listen, if you build the machine where it works really, really well, I think regardless, whatever machine you build, we have to have like decent utilization for that service model.

But yeah, we can keep going, Mark.

I think that's

right.

So yeah, let me share some more content for this.

The first I'll say is this, of course, classic Mark Fisher style.

I may be sounding more dramatic than it is.

And in fact, we recently, as part of our yearly housekeeping around here, I just redid our internal email marketing playbook.

We also redid our marketing and sales scorecard.

people to do it, they're good at it, they like

particular gym or studio what are some of the little things that need to be done to really build and create a fantastic member journey and experience and you can even start before you come to the studio if you wish

yeah yeah yeah i i think i'll i'll i'll pick a few moments that i think are useful that people can maybe like think through how they might be able to apply so yeah i agree the very first opportunity for the customer service experience is We can say once somebody opts in and raises their hands in some way for whatever the first thing is, right? So typically in our world, we tend to work a lot of small group gyms.

We don't typically sell a thing off a website that one could, but whenever the person takes their first action and alerts the gym, they exist.

I think an immediate outreach as soon as possible is both, one, going to be important from a sales and marketing perspective, and particularly in the States, if you're using any kind of cold meta ad.

Speed delete has always mattered, but it's never mattered more.

And I would argue that's not only useful for marketing and sales, but it's a reflection of great service, right? Like you've opted in, and I'm immediately reaching out to you personally to to welcome you, to help support you in taking the next step, right? So I think a really quick outreach.

I think that certainly from my taste of brands I'm most interested in is I also want things to be both dialed and organized, but also very human, right? So we want to systemize the follow-up process.

a various like

What do you think about, I guess, the problems that you're seeing with gym owners where has it changed at all versus when you were grinding away in a basement in Manhattan, right? Are the problems different? Are they the same? Is it same as it ever was? What do you think?

You know, it's so funny, like yes and no.

I think like the principle problems are probably the same.

I think some of the tactics have changed, particularly because I opened up Mark Fisher Fitness in 2011, right? I mean, it's a lot of things have changed in the past 15 years, I guess.

You know what I mean? This was before paid meta ads was a thing.

Even pay-per-click, I don't think was really even a thing at that time.

You could grow your business via organic Facebook posts, if you can imagine such a thing.

Mark, what have you found in your travels to be some of the more applicable or more consistent things that are repeatable? Some of the stuff that will definitely work that you're seeing across some of these, like you said, some of the best gym owners in the world that you're working with.