And to be able to come together with folks and be creative with them, it fits those two pieces of the puzzle together.

Yeah, it's so important.

I mean, you can think in the process of creating music, if you just want to write by yourself, that's like available.

But I think when it comes to actually like presenting what you're doing in a group space, like you can't avoid it, you know, unless you're just completely 100% a solo artist.

But even then, it's like you need people to come and bring things together and add their own element.

to fully flesh things out so even having this moment where you just have to focus on literally playing the music which takes you outside of whatever is going on in your head at the time and it does that for every person who's in the room and that kind of helps to mitigate whatever is going on in the group dynamic you still have to focus on this one thing that is like a communal project and I think that's so beneficial And it does, I mean, at least for me, it does lift my mood a little bit and just gives you even just a minor sense of accomplishment that you like got your ass out of the house and like to the space or the venue or whatever.

And like you did the thing, even if it doesn't like completely heal you in the midst of like a mental health episode or a depressive jag or whatever it is, like you still get like a small sense of, accomplishment, I think that sort of helps at least keep you from getting worse sometimes.

How has it been for you? Because I know you're not going on these huge stadium tours, but with punk rock, it's all dependent upon yourself and How have you dealt with touring as far as to do with your anxiety and depression?