Mario Ledesma

[laughs]

... and instead, Shaun E- Shaun Edwards and Mario Ledesma both enter the ego dome together, which, uh-

[laughs]

I mean, we love narrative over here.

The narrative of Shaun Edwards and Mario Ledesma both joining the Pumas coaching team is so good.

Like, Philippe Saint-André, a man who is possessed of a famously hot temper and no small amount of ego, um, is being joined in the World Cup coaching booth by the guy Argentina sacked before the last World Cup.

Um, another man who is, [chuckles] you know, no small ego and hot temper.

What was encouraging about the All Blacks was, you know, I think they looked more cohesive.

Even though we saw drop balls, they looked more cohesive trying to manipulate the defence as a unit, as a group, as multiple players rather than just getting it to one player and hoping they could do something amazing.

We've been through periods in All Black history and I was part of one of those periods where I felt we didn't really manipulate defences, we would just try and get it to one unbelievably talented player and hope that they could do something marvellous, like a Christian Cullen.

More recently, you know, throw it to Wallace Satiti or throw it to Rico Ioane and hope they just produce something amazing.

Whereas on this tour, I think I saw much more cohesion with the All Blacks.

They wouldn't have had that French holiday and that opportunity to play there if we hadn't done all the hard work for too long in that really difficult season 2007-2008.

We had a tough season in the second division there.

We only had, you know, second-grade players like Victor Matfield, Esteban Lozada, yourself, Anton Oliver, four guys who had just played in the World Cup in 2007, came straight down to play second.