Mangosuthu Buthelezi

And one such force is Inkatha in Natal.

Inkatha's leader, Chief Buthelezi, has become the primary obstacle to peace in South Africa.

In meeting after meeting, Mandela has sought to appease him.

But Buthelezi remains a wild card, promising South Africans yet more blood and tears.

Inkatha has turned Natal into a war zone.

In the last eight years, 12,000 people have been killed here in clashes between Inkatha and ANC supporters.

I just feel personally that we almost need to raise our sensitivity, sorry, raise our bar of sensitivity a little bit because if we... jump to responding to every single thing an Afroforum or March and March or Solidaritate or an Ernst Ritz does, it inflates their sense of importance in our national conversation when you know there are so many other things we need to be talking about so i don't know i i go back and forth on this but i but i just think it's it's interesting particularly just thinking about that poll on the whatsapp channel how it was quite disparate in terms of people's responses but like um how we should deal with these kinds of sort of deliberately antagonistic people

i want to just quickly flag uh and this is uh really important is that um Zulu leaders who are particularly interested in the fortunes of Zulu people and seem quite explicitly by their following to have lots of Zulu supporters, whether that be Jacob Zuma or Butelezi or whoever, often get into bed with right-wing Afrikaners.

It happens over and over again.

Carter did it with the apartheid government, as I write about in the book.

Yeah, no.

Uh, thank you for clarifying, because not many of our folks know the difference, well, in the, the intricacies, if you will, of what's going on in South Africa, because you mentioned Mandela's, uh, uh, ANC and m- m- Mangosuthu Buthelezi's, uh-

Right

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