How much have you seen governance changed in the time that you've been working on it?

Well, there's so many different, you know, it's a constant change.

I would say in some perspectives, governance has remained much the same that it has since, I don't know, the 1700s or something when the first board of directors was set up, which of course has got to do with the VOC or the Dutch East India Company, right? So that was the first formal board of directors.

And the principles remain much the same since back then, that you need someone in the middle to be able to make sure that the interests of the actual shareholders are being taken into account and being played through with the executives and the leadership.

So I think those fundamental principles remain much the same, but it has changed pretty dramatically in terms of the nuances around it or how it's evolved.

So for example, let me just talk about two aspects.

One aspect is I think...

So with stats like that, what proactive steps would you advise taking to uncover hidden opportunities?