Louise Hickson

Yeah.

And I feel like Louise Hickson and Barbara Timmer and their team at the really pioneered some of this work, but especially pushing it into clinics.

And so I feel in New Zealand and in Australia, we're really at the forefront of this person-centered care and designing our clinical services so that we see not just the client in front of us, but how the hearing loss impacts on their broader circle, but also bringing in the significant other and that importance to of the person with hearing loss coming to our clinic, actually bringing their spouse or their adult child, their son or adult son or adult daughter, and bringing the family into appointment so that we can work with the whole unit, the people around them, not just helping them manage their hearing loss, but educating their spouse to not talk into a cupboard, but to call their name before they start the conversation and these sorts of things.

But it's interesting because we've been doing this for sort of a decade or more in New Zealand and in Australia, we're starting to see some of the other countries around the world and now looking at us and looking at the client benefits of this way of working and asking us to help them redevelop their processes and protocols as well.