How did you get from one of the darkest, hardest days probably of your entire life to now working with other women and couples and the book, the podcast? How did you get here today?

Yeah, it was a long journey.

I mean, I think that's the thing with betrayal recovery is it's long and it exposes so many things that you don't know are there.

One of the things that I say so often is betrayal uncovers the truth, not just about what somebody else did, but about all the ways you betrayed yourself.

You bypassed things within your marriage, things within your relationship.

And it's hard to face yourself.

You know, it's just really hard to face yourself.

And so what did that look like for your end? What did you need from him? And was there any part of it that truly was still just yourself, the process you had to walk through?

Do you have any tips or tricks for people that are looking for a way to start finding out how do you become aligned with yourself and what your- ... true heart is saying.

Yeah.

I think first is understand that it's a process.

It's a process of inquiry, and it changes.

Sometimes I think we find w- we get trapped in that language of like, "I will find my authentic self." Well, your authentic self is ever-changing.

Your authentic self is ever-growing.

Who I was before this experience and who I am after this experience, I'm different people.

Right.

this prompt you to do the work that you do with portrayal?

Yes, because I was so shattered, so devastated.

And I went out and I got a lot of help.

And as with anything, there's some great help out there and there's some not so great help out there.

You know, it always takes finding a few people.

But it was one of those things that nobody had all of the pieces.

I saw a lawyer because even though I am a lawyer, I needed legal advice for myself because I wasn't sure if I was going to be married, separated, what.

of all, they say,

do the work that you do with portrayal?

Yes, because I was so shattered, so devastated.

And I went out and I got a lot of help.

And as with anything, there's some great help out there and there's some not so great help out there.

You know, it always takes finding a few people.

But it was one of those things that nobody had all of the pieces.

I saw a lawyer because even though I am a lawyer, I needed legal advice for myself because I wasn't sure if I was going to be married, separated, what.

OK, so the librarians, what do they say about betrayal?

Do you know what brought you to that point? Or was it just a collection-

Couple...

Yeah, a, a, there was a couple of different things.

I had, I had a friend say to me, 'cause I said, "Who's ever gonna believe me and who's gonna trust me," and all this stuff, because I was doing some life coaching and working with people in the wellness space.

And he was like, "Dude, wake up.

They're gonna trust you more now if they see that you've gone through something and that you didn't collapse." And I was like, "Uh-oh, I never thought about it like that." You know, because as the perfectionist, if you're not perfect, what are you worth? And I...

That was a huge shift.

Okay

Why do you believe that healing needs to address all of those levels? And can you tell us about the librarians?

Oh, I'd love to.

Healing needs to address all those levels because we're multifaceted beings.

And like I said earlier, sometimes we think, well, if I just lose 10 pounds, everything will be fine.

No, if you lose 10 pounds, your body might be healthier or thinner, but your mind and your spirit, you have to do everything on every single level.

You can't just pray it away and And you can't just work it out away.

And you can't just therapize it away.

Tell us about

I needed to face this.

No, I'm happy to share that because they were things I truly didn't see.

One of those is, I think, and I'm speaking generally, so just saying that.

In general, women have not held power in our patriarchal society, right? So the way that we have power sometimes is we manipulate kind of on the back end, right? And there were ways I would manipulate.

Instead of just speaking my truth, I would pretend to be a certain way or, you know, do kind of the traditional feminine things that you sometimes hear about.

Like, fine, it's all fine.

It's fine.

Yeah.

How common do you think that is? And what do you think goes on in the wife's mind? Yeah,

it's very common.

It's, Very common.

I will tell you again from my personal experience as well as from the people that I've worked with.

The first thing is you don't believe it and you are the one that feels crazy.

Am I thinking something is going on? Gosh, I don't know.

And that's a big accusation to throw at somebody.

Wow.