Deploying capital, you've just described some of those, but different ways in which an organization can fuel itself, and that's where your passion lies?

Yeah, absolutely.

So those sort of more commercial, uh, hard-edged s- skills, which, um, I've been fortunate enough to develop through working at companies like Perpetual Guardian, um, where we purchased Givealittle.

So that was a straight commercial decision, um, and built Givealittle out, invested in that, and that grew as a result from about 22 million to now tipping around 44 million, I think.

But also pa- I was part of the executive at Perpetual Guardian.

We, we owned an investment company as well, so, you know, it's very great experience, uh, to learn more about the investment world there.

But I no longer...

Yeah

But, um, what was it like re- leading a peak body? Um, what did you, in the time that you were leading it?

Yeah.

Um, th- that was an amazing time, amazing opportunity.

I was fortunate enough to be, um, hired by amazing women actually, in the, in the philanthropy sector.

Um, Jenny Gill and Kate Frykberg were the people that hired me.

Um, Jenny Gill, of course, set up Philanthropy New Zealand about 35 years ago now, and is still, um, still very involved in the philanthropy sector, uh, even though sh- um, she's now older, but d- still doing amazing work.

So, uh, it was, it was incredible actually.

But is that where you get all, you can get into your anger in-

So why now?

Because we've still got significant stigma and discrimination against people who are living with HIV.

And with modern medication now, people can live long, healthy, happy lives with an HIV diagnosis.

But unfortunately, there's a lot of discrimination and lack of education, frankly, around that.

For example, 42% of New Zealanders are not comfortable having food prepared for them by somebody with HIV.

Now, you cannot transmit HIV through food preparation.

You know, that shows you the level of ignorance.

what we're seeing with HIV in Fiji at the moment, the massive spike that they're experiencing, could be imported here?

So why now?

Because we've still got significant stigma and discrimination against people who are living with HIV.

And with modern medication now, people can live long, healthy, happy lives with an HIV diagnosis.

But unfortunately, there's a lot of discrimination and lack of education, frankly, around that.

For example, 42% of New Zealanders are not comfortable having food prepared for them by somebody with HIV.

Now, you cannot transmit HIV through food preparation.

You know, that shows you the level of ignorance.

Are you worried that what we're seeing with HIV in Fiji at the moment, the massive spike that they're experiencing, could be imported here?