And speaking to the lost art of orals, why isn't every government bid requesting orals? Why are we not doing orals for everything if they're so concerned about great proposal writers being a basis here?

So let me tell you, I said 1994, and then we had a couple of agencies that were really leveraging the source selection methodology.

If we're looking from a historical component, Department of Energy was real big in the early aughts about oral presentations.

It was almost certain- That if you were going to be working with energy, you were going to do some sort of challenge scenario or oral presentation.

There were firms that were built around DOE oral support.

That's how many there were.

And there is a couple.

There's more