Lifespring

And so I did it once with Alan, once with a gentleman by the name of Joseph Riggio, another transformation person.

And then lastly, I did it once with this psychologist who also came from leading other transformation large group awareness trainings like Lifespring.

So it's a similar landmark.

Her name was Dr. Laura Emery.

You know, This is a secret.

I was, when I was at Michigan State, it was funny, you know, people were going through something called Est and LifeSpring.

These were like, in mind dynamics, they were going through, and these were things to try to Elevate your consciousness, get you to believe in yourself even more, realize you could do more than what you thought you could.

It wasn't religious, but it helped you touch your inner spirit more.

And it was so cute when you just said, holy cow.

But talk about, I mean, I don't care if it's Landmark, LifeSpring, SciSeminars, whatever it is, jump in the foxhole, right? Oh, you got it.

You got it.

I mean, talk about personal development, what a part it played, even though there was no money to be made.

There'd been journal articles published of some people experiencing psychosis.

Lifespring, which was one of the big all-gats in the 70s and 80s, was sued a number of times for people experiencing psychosis.

So you've got these triggers and you've got these symptoms.

And essentially that was what my PhD was doing, was just bringing a lot of information together to say, okay, It's quite clear that this pattern exists in the seminars and then this pattern exists in people after the seminars.

And in addition to that, a lot of people that volunteer their their time.

So they're not getting paid anything.

And you mentioned Landmark, Est before it's Lifespring.

A lot of these organizations relied very heavily on volunteer labor, people working in their call centers, people doing their sales.