[laughs]

... that, um, especially for people who want to do podcasting and content creation full-time, there is a lot of money talk that goes into it.

And I know sometimes, especially in the 2010s, podcasting was a little hesitant to get into the money talk conversation publicly.

Um, but I do think it is important, especially for people who are crowdfunding, for people who wanna make sure their people are paid fairly for their time and their effort.

And that's not to say projects of passion aren't also worthwhile, but I do think it is fair for people in this space to want to work for, if not a livable wage, at least something more than a token, you know, five, $10 of appreciation.

And I think it's important that we have those conversations about money and crowdfunding and advertising and figuring all that out.

And I've also done that both formally and informally for a couple of shows where I've consulted with them about, um, how they wanna run their crowdfunding, how they wanna run their Patreon, how they wanna balance their budget if they have a set budget already from grants and funding, and figuring out how to best allocate that money for different resources.

Mm-hmm.