Leslie Feinberg

... go to an office.

Do you have any stories to tell about, like, Leslie, Leslie Feinberg and how they are kind of like an icon to both trans and lesbian-

Ah

... communities, too, and, like, that sort of history?

Mm-hmm

...

Leslie Feinberg-

Yeah

[laughs]

Sandra's day is the 13th of March, and the 13th of March is dedicated to Leslie Feinberg.

Anyone familiar? Anyone familiar?

Never heard of her.

But let me tell you about Leslie.

Leslie was born in 1949, died in 2014.

Leslie Feinberg was a trans butch lesbian communist and activist who helped begin the early conversations around trans and gender non-conforming language.

Feinberg used the pronouns ze for she and hir for her, but also believed the intention and the location of when a pronoun was used to be important.

Um, Yeah.

Well, the thing I guess I wanted to ask a little bit, I didn't say this properly, is that what I was most amazed at, because I read that quote to Leslie, my wife, last night, and she was like, really? And I realized she didn't, I was starting to show her pictures on Google and stuff like that.

I was like, yeah, this is blue guy.

I remember this picture my mom used to have growing up, blah, blah, blah, and I'd go on and on.

So if we go back, that kind of idea really comes out of the mid-20th century.

When you have these stories like Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, or Leslie Feinberg's Stone Butch Blues, Leslie meets Big Al, and Big Al is going to introduce you to everybody else.

It's also this creating these gender dynamics about butch femme, about things being passed down, certain kind of lineages.

I want to go back to Theo's really important point about the racialization of these spaces, because lesbian bars tend to take on really, really white norms.