Laura Anne Jones

who is completely opposed to that.

Now, reform themselves probably haven't got a leg to stand on complaining because under the previous system, they had a conservative Senate member called Laura Ann Jones, who was elected on a conservative list, go over towards them and affected to them.

So reform can't complain.

But I think what's so frustrating about the system that Wales introduced is the only thing that British democracy really did well was have a link between the constituent and the person representing them.

happened there? Episode 275, and it's still only Monday, so midday.

Live broadcast started 3,000 hours ago.

Well, look, because while you guys were recording, Laura Ann Jones was elected as the deputy leader of reform in Wales.

She wasted no time in calming things down.

Yes, it was.

And the deputy leader is Laura-Ann Jones.

And she was a Conservative member before defecting to reform and then elected for reform at the Senate election in May.

And one of the first questions for her was on Radio Wales earlier in the week, you know, what about another candidate? who originally defected from the Conservatives or left the Conservatives, was thrown out of the Conservatives maybe, James Evans.

I think the fact that you've got somebody who's literally marking Fianna Fáil with, you know, man for man, woman for man from the same patch, beautiful welsh um speaks welsh fluently loves wales as much as he does to be honest it takes a lot of the toxicity uh that applied have been trying to generate against reform away and so we're looking weirdly at a very interesting battle now um in the center then i think you'll know more about this both of you than me but I suspect with her that what they're up against is something that's harder to dismiss because she's serious, she's committed to the Senedd, she's committed to Wales, and so we'll have a genuine opposition there, and hopefully that will determine that the group are there not to be disruptive and difficult, but to be constructive and opposed.

Do you think then, Guto, it solves a few of those questions, those problems that they had about were they serious about Wales, but also, you know, being the girl on the call, do you think it solves that woman problem that a lot of people were trying to composed that narrative and also they elected Laura Ann Jones as their deputy leader.

Do you think that helps fix some of those even if it's temporary?

All of the above.

You're sep- you know, trying to separate the people and the party and what voters think and what that individual thinks is, is impossible.

Mind you, I suppose we've seen it on the list system under the old system, haven't we? Laura Ann Jones defected-

Well, it's not new necessarily.

It was just baked in, isn't it?