Landor

Absolutely.

Yeah, I believe he is now the executive vice president of brand performance at WPP Brand and Design, which owns Landor, I believe.

So you're kind of a, you know, inside hire, as it were.

That's right.

I joined Landor 11 years ago.

and set up brand performance.

And the idea behind that was to measure brand in a more rigorous way, and in particular, to sort of connect brand with money, quite honestly.

LinkedIn's good.

Yeah.

If you come into a big, I don't know who the big players are now because I'm 10 years removed from this category, but when I got started, it was all Landor all the time.

Everybody worked at Landor at some point in their career.

If you were just creative at Landor and you had no strategic capacity, no ability to design to a brief, you weren't going to last very long at Landor.

Yeah, yeah.

So you might have only interacted with people who are able to do that because you're dealing with more senior people who have now learned the system.

I think inevitably I had to sort of get involved and do so in the end.

But I did a mixture of working freelance, doing private commissions, and then also working... what was then probably the world's biggest branding agency, which was Landor, a design and brand consultancy.

That was in the late 90s when I think brand was really starting to become a thing that everyone in the design industry understood and started to become a language that designers and marketers and business people and C-suite could all use and start to communicate with each other.

around a central theme.