Can you explain to us what it is? What is going on with our brains when we talk about this?

It differs slightly for everyone because we're all different.

But the basic of it, the fundamentals are, is that when we are thinking, worrying, it's a brain thing.

The brain is overworking.

That's pretty much what it is.

So when we work hard physically, what usually happens is parts of the body break down and you get injuries and you start to get, you know, I twisted my ankle the other day and I start to, so that's the body breaking down.

the brain starts to break down the same way.

So I found that really interesting that you've got those, the sighing, writing, walking, talking, all ways to help switch those brain parts around again.

Why is that?

Um, you know, give me a hostage negotiation any day.

It's simply because you're, you're, you're trying to imagine and visualize what's happening on the ground based on information that's coming into your headset from officers on the ground.

You've got a map in front of you, but you can't really visualize the...

You can't see the geographical, topographical state of what's going on.

So the officers, you're relying on that information coming to you and then making a number of decisions in quick succession as to try and justify, sh- is it working? W- is it worth it? What's the downside? What's the positive? And it's, it's just...

It really is a, the...

Is that a shortcoming, or is that a, just a sign of how dynamic something like this is?

Why is that?

Um, you know, give me a hostage negotiation any day.

Simply because you're, you're, you're trying to imagine and visualize what's happening on the ground based on information that's coming into your headset from officers on the ground.

You've got a map in front of you, but you can't really visualize the...

You can't see the geographical, topographical state of what's going on.

So the officers, you're relying on that information coming to you and then making, uh, a number of decisions in quick succession as to try and justify, sh- is it working, w- is it worth it, what's the downside, what's the positive? And it's, it's just, it really is a, a...

I remember the, being the first night I came home and said, "Ooh, I don't know if I can stay in the police."

Is that a shortcoming, or is that a, just a sign of how dynamic something like this is?

Am I likely to be shot dead?

Yes is the short answer.

The, the... it's, it's what's in the mind of the officer at the time, and they are, believe it or not, fully justified to do so.

Um, when you have...

L- let's have, go back and start right from the start.

There is a, a, a call comes in that somebody has stolen a firearm from a, a gun shop.

Now, that gun shops have, uh, little...

But you've got to feel for the police officer who was actually, don't you feel, just acting on their training?

Am I likely to be shot dead?

Yes.

That is the short answer.

The, the, it's, it's what's in the mind of the officer at the time, and they are, believe it or not, fully justified to do so.

Um, when you have...

L- let's have, go back and start right from the start.

There is a, a, a call comes in that somebody has stolen a firearm from a, a gun shop.

Don't you feel just acting on their training?

Why do you say it's working? Is that because they are cracking down on the bad cops, weeding them out?

Uh, w- bad cops.

Um, uh, you're throwing me there.

Uh, police aren't bad, right? So you don't join the police to become bad or to be bad.

Uh, there is quite a, a rigorous process you have to go through.

There's something that sticks in my mind, Amanda, when I first joined police.

The sergeant at police college welcomed us all and said, "Congratulations, you're in the top percentile of the country.

Would it be one of the sort of biggest crises facing the police force in recent history, and can they get past it?

This is an allegation which is being denied, and actually part of the process is letting the process flow through and natural justice should happen, right?

Yeah, you've got to take the person away from the position.

So there's been an allegation made against the person.

That will be investigated.

The fact is it's going to be investigated more thoroughly than any other...

Police investigation, because you've got two going, you've got Integrity Union, you've got the police, the IPCA also investigating it.

So it will be investigated thoroughly and that's what's expected.

Yeah, they were

Does it look like a cover-up to you?

There's something going on here that I don't know.

I don't know what it is.

I know as much as everybody else.

What I see at the moment is a number of systemic failures throughout police where the systems have fallen over and I can only put that down to a loss of experienced staff.

In 2011-2013 the police started doing something called volunteer retirement and restructuring and a lot of experienced staff left.

if you look at the top echelon of the police excluding the commissioner who I might say is doing a fantastic job of trying to get things right they are quite limited experience and perhaps not as well versed in risk management as they could be and so because of that it's just a lack of understanding of systems and processes we know we're seeing it now starting to be exposed, this whole loss of huge experience that that left the police

That's

Does it look like a cover-up to you?

There's something going on here that I don't know.

I don't know what it is.

I know as much as everybody else.

What I see at the moment is a number of systemic failures throughout police where the systems have fallen over.

And I can only put that down to a loss of experienced staff.

Following in 2011, 2013, the police started doing something called volunteer retirement and restructuring.

That's