So there's

that kind of concern.

That's a great question.

I think in many ways that really is an important question because what has happened? If you look back, so in 1978, Richard Foster published his book, Celebration of Discipline.

And most people would put this current iteration of this conversation, they would start it with that book.

And what Foster was doing was he was collecting a group of, you know, kind of a book of disciplines that he said, we stop talking about these.

Now, it's important that we remember that.

Exactly.

Why this question? Why is it important? And why do you think people are asking this question?

Yeah, well, that's a great question.

And I think a pressing one.

You know, what we have found is that not only in our own lives, but in the lives of all of our students, pretty much everyone I talk to, is that one of the most confusing things that happens in the Christian life is we usually start and we have all this zeal and passion and excitement, right? And everything seems to work.

And then we go through a season and it's like, wow.

Well, that that's not there anymore.

And oftentimes we don't even notice it.

what do you think the difference is of people who make it through it and people who give up

No, that

seems misguided somehow.

That seems like I don't think that's right.

Like there's something deeper, you know, and it's and, you know, passion.

And so one of the things we do is we actually return to the old language is that there's a difference between affection and passion.

Yeah.

Passion's a very childish kind of thing, actually.

Who knows? And I find that it can be especially difficult to walk through seasons where it feels like God's distant when you're sort of the curator of This community of faith and you don't seem to have any, you know, I mean, to put it bluntly, talk about how we can navigate places like that when we're in a position of sort of spiritual leadership.