And it's like, if you're going to beat them, you're going to have to figure out a way to hold serve on those tracks.

Yeah, and those are our best tracks.

But we're still like fifth to seventh, probably, on speed, I think.

I've had races this year where I'm like, man, my car is perfect.

It's doing everything I want it to do.

It's driving great, and they're passing me and driving away from me.

But I look at that as opportunity where it's like, man, we've got to take our strengths, which is intermediates, and maximize it, not try to get anything more or anything less.

What is the message from Cliff Bend throughout this year with ups and downs and maybe not the typical five team?

It's hard to believe you trust Clinton Boyles that much, but I mean... [laughs]

[laughs] Yeah.

No, him and Carson do a great job.

So, um, yeah, it's fun.

Owen, dude, he's rac- I mean, the adults he's racing with and kids, like they're really good.

So, um, he's been getting a lot better this year.

Audrey, she's been killing it in the junior sprint.

Yeah

Were you going into Richmond being like, yeah, no chance I'm making it to Knoxville? How many boxes had to check and just walk me through the day?

So Friday, they rained out that portion of it.

It rained there quite a bit that afternoon.

So they postponed Friday's program to Saturday morning.

And so, yeah, I mean, I woke up and Obviously going to check the weather and how that looks in both places.

But in Knoxville, it looked really poor, which was going to be good for me.

You know, I needed it to rain there.

So how do you know that something's not up and there's something that needs fixing about this five?

But I mean, does that relate to you as well?

Oh yeah.

I like practice.

I, I felt like I was the worst car on the racetrack and I was just down about our car.

I'm like, oh my God, this is me another weekend where we run 20th or worse.

And, uh, I'm be lucky not to crash.

And, uh, yeah, I remember coming in.

This is, I know you talk about this on, uh, on the flow after the sprint car stuff, but for the people that don't know, um, can you talk a little bit about Paul Silva and what makes him so good at what he does?

Or what were you processing at that time?

Honestly, I mean, for me, it was all calm.

Like I'm, you know, like I'm pretty laid back and calm and I was the only person doing it.

You know, I didn't have a big entourage with me.

And I think that kind of helped not get like overly hype because a lot of times like you do things, everybody else around me gets more excited about things than I do, which can be.

get me excited in a way or in a way that I don't want to be excited.

Um, so no, it wasn't really like too hectic.

So do you just go just because you can? It's fun to stay sharp, like you said? Or is there other stuff that you're still chasing in terms of like, I want to be here or known as this by the time I'm done?

Yeah

... like a bit, I don't know, difficult to process how all the stars kind of aligned and, um, [laughs] and how the rain came and delayed it just long enough literally for me to get there in time.

So yeah, still, still can't believe it, 'cause I didn't...

I mean, all along, I mean, for a year now, I, I just felt like, yeah, I would, I would run my prelim night.

Hopefully it goes how it did, and, and then just leave it to somebody [laughs] else to go win.

So, um, but then, yeah, I mean, the forecast was what it was.

It was getting worse throughout the week, but then the, the day of, Saturday, it got way better.

No

How does that all come together?

Yeah, so let's see.

I mean, backing up to before I even moved there, I was – yeah, so I had started racing sprint cars in 08, I'm guessing, 07, and did – Civil War at the time, which is pretty much now SCCT, did NARC, you know, raced for Dave Bertullo for three years, then won with the Cadings, and then at the...

That was, like, 2010, so at the tail end of that...

I had a good year, won the NARC championship.

And so I'm guessing my name was getting recognized and people were paying more attention.

And then, yeah, Keith and Pete, they paid attention to me at the Chili Bowl.

That's your ARCA year, right?

The question is, does he get nervous watching his kids race?

I don't get nervous at all watching them, but I love it.

I just have a good time watching them grow and get better and work at it.

It's been a lot of fun and this year I'm starting my own team for them.

That's really exciting.

In the past I've rented rides from others and so now it's fun to have my own employees and have our own equipment in our shop and kind of get to have control over what it looks like and what parts we order and stuff.

So yeah, that's been fun and then yeah, like I said, just seeing them develop and work at getting better is always cool.

What kind of a racing dad are

Why continue to do it when ev- we... y- you, you kind of don't have to.

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I, I don't have to, but I think the few reasons why I keep doing it, um, number one is 'cause I love it.

Uh, but then I also feel like it's a great tool, um, for me to, to get better and hone my craft.

Um, I don't know if you guys are familiar with sprint cars and stuff, but they're 950 horsepower on a 1,400 pound race car, so they are wild, fast, violent.

Um, all that sort of thing kind of helps, I think, for me, slow the stock car down feel-wise.

Um, in NASCAR our cars have 670 horsepower and weigh 3,600 pounds, so the power to weight ratio is quite a bit different.

So for me, racing the dirt track, you know, the cars are crazy.

Have you seen a change in the level of racing as of recent since the COVID is taking place?

I did

...

Yeah, no suspension, all that.

But mine had a roll cage and, like, a, a wing on top, so they kind of looked like a, you know, miniature version of a sprint car, but they were violent.

Like, they were crazy fast vehicles.

Um, you know, I'm 11, 12 years old racing those with a 500cc, you know, motorcycle engine on it.

So from an early age, you know, it kind of taught me a lot about, you know, trying to manhandle a, a vehicle because they would, you know, pop wheelies, spin the tires really easy.

Emotional rollercoaster, yeah.

Tell us about where your mind goes when you're trying to accomplish something like the double.

Yeah, for me, you know, yes, it is.

It's such an – I mean, just a single race is very much endurance.

You know, like a NASCAR race would be – well, the Coke 600 is our longest race of the year, 600 miles.

So that race in itself is four and a half hours to five hours, depending on cautions.

Then you throw in the Indy 500, a three-hour race.

So you're behind the wheel of a race car with an elevated heart rate for – long time.

What's the biggest difference between the two that you had to learn and adjust to?

When you went to pit road during the caution, can you take us through how things played out when you opted to go for just two tires while Denny's team went for four?

Yeah.

Um, yeah, unfortunately for Denny, you know, the caution came out, there with three to go, and that gave everybody an opportunity to do something crazy on either strategy or just the restart in general.

And, uh, you know, Denny was the class of the field all race, so our only play we felt like as a team was to kind of go off script a little bit and- and, uh, yeah, we gambled with taking just two- two new tires, um, two right side tires, uh, on the pit stop to shorten it and gain some track position.

And, uh, his team elected to do four, and that was kind of the difference maker, um, for us.

You know, we were able to be a few spots ahead of him on the restart and then have a good, you know, restart and- and, you know, maintain that distance I had on him to, uh, edge him out to- to become the champion.

So, um, yeah, that- that made it super, uh, exciting for us and- and surprising too, just because we were never even in the- the picture, I felt like, um, until the very end there.

As the reigning champ, what kind of thoughts do you have? Like, what would you like to see the playoff format look like?

Like, how do you fucking create energy for this shit?

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good question and it's...

I feel like it's difficult for me because like I said, I'm gone all the time, so like, I don't have like a routine necessarily like some guys might but, uh, I feel like too for like our sport, like it's- it's pretty endurance driven.

So like for fitness stuff, like I like to- I like to ride my bike a lot.

You know, obviously I'm not like a big dude, don't have big muscles or nothing, which you don't need, but I think be- being able to withstand the hot temps that are in our car...

Like this time of year in the summer, like it'll get 140, 150 degrees inside the car for three and a half hours.

Um, so like while, you know, running a heart rate of, you know, fluctuating from, you know, my max would be 190 and, you know, my average heart rate throughout a race sometimes will be 150, 160.

(laughs)

Now I'm always looking because I'm an LA native, I'm always looking to rep Cali, what was it like for you to grow up and compete in Northern California when the majority of the sports stars came from the South?

Yeah, yeah, no that's a good question.

Um, and- and really, I mean I owe, I think all of us from California really owe it to Jeff Gordon, you know, I feel like he was one of the first drivers to kind of pave the way and- and kind of make it to NASCAR.

Um, especially being from Northern California, a lot of the racing there is dirt track racing.

So I grew up a dirt track racer, very similar to Jeff Gordon, um, and then, you know, raced there from 14 years old to 19 and then moved to Indiana, just like he did, and, uh, raced in the USAC series, had a great year and then got picked up by a NASCAR team at- at the end of 2011 and then, you know, started running in 2012 and made it to the Cup Series by 2014.

So, um, it- it- it...

I think that's what's cool about NASCAR is there's not one set way, uh, and one set path to make it.

So what was it like to be in enemy territory Monday when you came to Dodgers Stadium and you got to chop it up with my dude Dave Roberts?

Mm-hmm.

So, completely different than a stock car used to be.

Uh, we now have independent suspension.

We've got underbody aerodynamics that we're relying on.

Uh, the sidewalls of the tires are shorter, a lot like an Indy car.

Um, so what I feel in the car is honestly pretty similar.

You're going a lot faster in the Indy car.

Yeah.

Boo.

Yeah, I got lucky.

That was, that was a pretty generous, uh, wreck for the speedway.

But honestly too, like going back to the, the stock car versus IndyCar stuff, like I think there's more similarities than there are differences.

Like the, I know they look different and you're going way faster in, at Indy than you do in NASCAR.

You know, we probably go 195 at Indy there.

But the overall feel of the car, the downforce, the, our new NASCAR cars are much similar, like independent suspension, the underbody a- aero effect.

Yeah.