And

so we got to know each other really well.

She, and she is a great marketer in her own right.

Absolutely.

events, brand, comms, all of it.

She's fantastic.

She's worked with us at Positioning Collective a bit as a consultant.

Give a shout out to them, please.

So what does that look like when it's disguised as a marketing problem?

I think what happens is, founders especially, we are so passionate about what we're delivering, whether it's a product or service, that we want to say everything.

We want you to know everything we do.

We want you to understand all of our capabilities.

What are all of our services? What is all the product features? Not just the most important, but all of them.

And so as we ask our founders, the ones that we work with and our leaders to take a step back and to really think about what is the problem you're solving in the marketplace? What is the position that you want to live in? Whether it's a single idea in a customer's brain, a position vis-a-vis competitors, what is the number one thing you want to deliver as a founder? And so when you are thinking about all of your things that you're providing, whether it's product or services, those can get garbled when it goes to the market.

And that is the marketing problem.

But how do we as founders post appropriately, consistently, without constantly feeling like we're performing, or having to give away too much of our private lives?

Now, why do you think that would be?

Well, I think it's the same in sports, and we see it in a lot of U.S.-based sports like NFL, certainly hockey.

We've seen that, baseball even, although baseball right now, the team with all the great players is doing very well.

It's the same as in corporate teams or in small company teams, that it becomes a matter of kind of everyone being for themselves.

They're used to being the center, the go-to person, right? Instead of being a part of a group with a common vision.

Sometimes they're after their goal record or their scoring record or their hundredth game or thousandth game or whatever that looks like.

And I think we see the same in teams that I've worked with.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And I, it is trust is such a hard one because of there, you know, there's I don't know, is it the Forbes that does the list of top 100 trusted companies? Like, Oh yeah.

Like how do you determine that? Wait, who decide who even decides that list? Right.

I have no idea.

I'm sure it's a survey or something.

And I worked for companies that have wanted to be there.

And and then how do you get there? Well, trust, especially as a human trait that we're trying to associate with a brand or a company, which is what we do all the time, is about action.

Do you have any examples off the top of your head of like maybe, you know, some clients that you've worked with that really, that really needed your help? Not that they were maybe resistant to it, but had like a world of difference in the before and after and maybe what that success looked like for them?