Mm-hmm.

And when I got to Congress in 2023, I introduced the SAFE AI Act.

We're seeing AI, uh, impacting every facet of people's lives, and it's probably only gonna, uh, you know, become more so, uh, as time goes on.

Uh, and so we need to make sure that the future of this technology is determined not just by those who are in Silicon Valley in- working in a couple leading frontier labs, but that all Americans have a say.

Meaning what, though? What does that mean? That, that they're gonna catch up and surpass, or that they-

That's the idea, is that if you had...

Uh, and we had, you know, now we have this agreement among some of the leaders of the leading labs in the United States that, okay, that we need to pace the frontier, as Dario Amodei put it.

Uh, but there's this prisoner dilemma, because if you do that in the United States and China doesn't do it, then they may pull ahead.

How does that affect your campaign right now? And broadly, do you think it's good for the country?

I think it's not good for the country at all.

I think gerrymandering is a plague of democracy, and I've opposed it everywhere that it's occurred.

In fact, last year, really before any of this happened, I proposed legislation to ban mid-decade redistricting.

And if either party leader, by the way, either the speaker or the minority leader had embraced this proposal, then this would have ended, but neither wanted to do it.

And so now you've seen one state after another go down this road with terrible consequences for representation in this country.

I was glad to see that Missouri's map just got struck down, that gerrymander failed, just as I was glad when the gerrymander failed in Virginia.

Do they blame the conflict in Iran? Do they blame the president? Or do they blame someone else?

But what does it mean when you show up with this kind of ps- psychological torment of, of partisanship? Um, and, and how does the system reward that loyalty?

Yeah.

Great question.

I mean, um, what I guess was surprising to me is just how much, um, everything defaults to sort of, uh, you know, partisanship or this, uh, kind of team sport, one side against the other here in DC.

So as you mentioned, like I was in the state legislature in California for six years, uh, hardly your sort of platonic ideal of how a, uh, a legislative [laughs] body should function.

Uh, but even in comparison to that, the nature of the, the separation here, you caucus toge- uh, as, with your party.

Uh, the, the aisle is a literal thing where everyone sits on one side versus the other, uh, on the House floor.

So what does that look like every day?

Mm-hmm

...

among every dimension you can think of.

But then Richard Pan wanted to go much further than Newsom.

He proposed bills, for example, uh, to mandate the COVID vaccine for every kindergartner and up in California for public and private school, no exemptions whatsoever.

Uh, he proposed a bill to cut parents out of the decision-making, uh, for medical decisions for their kids by allowing, uh, kids to get vaccinations without parental consent.

Uh, he proposed a bill where basically every employee would be fired if they didn't present the right, uh, medical records, uh, vaccination papers, uh, to their employer.

... uh, theoretically, uh, as a result of making bad decisions along these lines?

Does the past loyalty and that relationship, does that stand up to the president? Does it make it harder to draw the line?

Well, you know, I'm in the House, and so I didn't have a vote in the matter here.

I have a lot of respect for Senator, uh, Cassidy and, uh, respect his judgment.

I also have a lot of respect for some senators, uh, who came out the other way.

Uh, but what I will say is that our role in the House as well is in the- Uh, is to provide for oversight and accountability.

And so if there are ever any questions about that going forward, uh, then we will absolutely need to have, uh, the appropriate tools of accountability exercise.

To give you one example of this, the day after this, uh, so-called weaponization fund was announced, I actually voted in the Judiciary Committee, uh, to subpoena those who are responsible.

Um, why hasn't Congress done more to either stop or green-light this massive renovation project? Because construction's obviously, obviously already well underway.

So what role would you play in Congress in that shift particularly?

Oh, I think that's fundamental.

I mean, that shift is the most important thing we can do, I think, to promote overall health and well-being and longevity, lifespan, healthspan within the United States.

And so, you know, I think there have been some good changes in terms of, for example, the new food pyramid.

We had, you know, outdated and frankly incorrect guidelines that had held sway for decades that were not rooted in what actually is in the interest of health and well-being.

And so I think that's a positive change.

And it's particularly important for kids to get them settled into the right habits early in life.

Do you think it's important for us to rebuild that trust? And if so, what will it take to do that?

So what's at stake in your new district? What's the path from here in November to winning?

Yeah, so my district, as you say, was my existing district, which I still represent until the end of this year, was cut into six different pieces through Prop 50, each of which then formed part of a new district.

So the one that I'm now running in is the newly denominated 6th District.

I represent already about 40% of that district right now.

So, you know, Rockland and and Roseville and Placer County, Orangevale in Sacramento County.

But then, you know, the other 60 percent is is new and not really that new in the sense that I've represented the Sacramento region for a number of years.

But these particular territories have never been under my jurisdiction or within my districts.

How do you counter that argument?

What is it like being part of a personality cult?

cult?Yeah, I, I think that it is not a healthy thing for democracy when you have so much of our politics for such a long period of time, uh, has really been, you know, defined by one person.

Uh, and so, uh, that's one of the reasons why I have been very, very strongly, uh, calling for the House to have more of a role, to assert its Article 1 authority.

That's one of the issues I've had, whether it's the tariffs issue, uh, the government shutdown, a whole host of other issues, uh, leading right up to the vote we're having today on this budget resolution to go down the reconciliation route again, uh, where the House and Congress have really sidelined themselves.

And so, you know, every president, frankly, in recent memory, going back probably most of the 20th century at the very least, has in many ways tried to test the limits of presidential authority.

It's the job of Congress to push back and assert itself and-

Um, how do you support a bill that could disenfranchise so many of your fellow Californians?

I mean, I support voter ID 100%.

You in favor of that? Do you think it's going to pass in the House tomorrow?

Well, I've said that we need to fund our troops, of course, but this is not the way to do that.

I've made it very clear that going down this path of budget reconciliation, which is by definition a strictly party-line process, is not the way to provide additional funding in a way that will assert Congress's Article I authority and ultimately facilitate an end to this conflict on acceptable terms.

So I'm very skeptical about the reconciliation process itself.

The way this has been set forward is not designed to have the sort of intense congressional involvement and scrutiny and oversight that I think is needed at this point.

So I'm disappointed that this is how it's played out.

Is that right?

Well, what should happen is we should then have a bipartisan product because I absolutely think we need to assure that we replenish the stockpiles that have been depleted.

Why did you vote against that?

Well, because that's not the right way for Congress to actually have a hand in what happens from here going forward.

The issue with the War Powers Resolution is, number one, it's not something the president is ever going to sign.

And even if somehow Congress overrode a veto, it's probably not something that would be enforceable in court.

And even if it was, it's not a good idea because what a war powers resolution says is that all of our personnel just have to exit the area immediately.

That's the sort of thing that will put our service members and U.S. interests in the region at great risk.

So that's not the right way for Congress to exercise its authority here.

Yeah.

But does that help?

Uh, uh, no.

I mean, I think that we should focus on this as an issue of basic competence and public trust.

And the New York Times editorial board has agreed with that.

The Wa- the, uh, Washington Post editorial board has agreed with that, uh, that California needs to count its votes faster.

People should have the results on election night or close to it.

When you drag it out for weeks, then it does create opportunities for people.

So to you, what do you say to those voters who are questioning US foreign aid to Israel and its war operations?

Since you've become an independent, has anything changed for you in these last several months, whether it's back home in your district or in the halls of Congress?

Well, for me, I've always approached my role, even when I was affiliated with the Republicans, as being an independent voice, uh, for my district.

So I think most people just see this as a natural evolution of that.

And I'll tell you, I've gotten just tremendous feedback from people on all sides, even from people who identify as Democrat, uh, or Republican, who think that, "You know what? Maybe things have gotten a little too dogmatic.

Uh, the gridlock in Washington has gotten out of control.

The hyper-partisanship seems to just be getting worse and worse and worse, and maybe this is time to have, uh, a, a larger role, uh, for independents in Congress, uh, and for frankly not having as much political division, uh, in this country." And so I think that it's been, uh, a very good response.

It's putting me in, it put me in a unique position I think, to be able to have influence in Congress and deliver for my district.

Where do you see Congress heading after these midterms? And are you concerned that the polarization and gridlock could get even worse in Congress?

So what's your take on this supposed deal that the president just announced? Do you and your colleagues believe that this really is an agreement that would end hostilities in the war with Iran?

Well, I certainly hope so.

I mean, if it leads to us not resuming hostilities and if it leads to deterrence of Iran's nuclear ambitions and reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, that's obviously very good news.

But we need to make sure it's on a solid footing.

And so people, I think, you know, are a little tired of the whiplash and there's skepticism about whether, you know, that will lead to a durable solution.

So what we really need in order to make sure that if this is coming together, as we hope it is, to assure that it lasts is we need to have conversations Congress centrally involved.

We need to have our allies involved.

So what's your path to victory?

Uh, as I said Google, Apple self-driving cars and then Barbara Boxer was on Last Hour, the former senator tried to convince me that the reason California couldn't count all of the votes in less than 10 days was because they had so many people

peopleWell, I- I'm not sure that makes sense because we do have, you know, uh, elections officials and, uh, all of the necessary equipment and so forth that is presumably, uh, you know, uh, proportionate to our population.

[laughs] So, uh, I don't really think that's much of an excuse.

Uh, and it's also not even an issue of Democrat versus Republican.

You can look at every other state in the country, whether it's a Democratic state or a Republican state, and they count their votes in a timely way, a lot faster than California does.

Most of them have 'em pretty much done, uh, on election night.

So this is a distinctly California problem.

We can't independently, um, confirm that, but the implication, I think, is the same, that 700,000 ballots show up after Election Day, that this process gives Democrats or the machine that's funded by the NGOs and all of the government contracts and labor unions, a lot of opportunities to, shall we say, uh, massage the results as they see fit.

... which is not the work of the DNI.

Priorities are completely upside down.

Uh, you, you know, I mean, this is...

We're talking about national security here, and he's talking about whether he was ripped off in the 2020 election, uh, or whether there's a few leftover Biden/Obama, uh, people, uh, which I, which I assume are actually working for the country, unless they're doing otherwise.

And we have a process for that.

But the president should concern himself with, uh, previous appointees and st- and, uh, the whole thing's backwards.

If you wanna do reform, do serious reform.

Mm-hmm.

Tell us how you did it, and, uh, and give us the results, 'cause you had a big win this week, my friend.

Uh, yeah, so we made a little bit of history in this new, uh, sixth, sixth district in California.

Uh, and you're absolutely right.

Uh, Gavin Newsom, uh, has been targeting me in, in every way possible.

Even last election in 2024, uh, his own staff member ran against me, uh, although we won [laughs] by 45,000, uh, votes.

And so that didn't work out so well for him, so, you know, he ended up gerrymandering, uh, the map in California.

Uh, but, you know, it's just a testament to the hubris of politicians who engage in gerrymandering, that they think they can just, you know, move the lines around on the map and pick your representative, uh, for you.

Sure.

D- are we looking at actual movement on this issue, or is it still just one or two?

Well, no, I think we are.

I think that there's broad, uh, concern across party lines about where we are right now, and of course on the ramifications on the economy and fuel prices and everything else.

What I'd like to see is Congress to assert its constitutional authority in a way that has real teeth.

And so for me, that means through the budget process, through our power over appropriations, we can direct how any funds related to this conflict are used.

And number two, through real oversight of the conflict so that Congress can get a sense of what the strategy is and assure that it's being, uh, carried out in a way consistent with our objectives there.

Well played

...

And we all know the source of that, from where it's generated, correct?

Well, of course, it's failed policies.

I mean, if you just look at the price of gas in California— I haven't checked it yet today what the statewide average is, but I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of six dollars and ten cents.

So that's by far the highest price any state in the country of all 50 states.

It's well above the second place.

It's like 40 cents above Hawaii, which is an island state.

So, you know, there is no reason why Californians should be forced to.

And so do you get the sense as you look at the way the election is playing out thus far, and I know it's still far from from official, but do you get a sense that the the electorate writ large in the state of California are kind of expressing some desire to see a change?

How do you feel about the Republican Party right now, where things stand, obviously, out in your state? The two big races for governor, for LA mayor, talk about it.

Well, I think in both races you're seeing, uh, you know, a desire for us to return to common sense in California.

Uh, you know, Spencer Pratt's, uh, viral videos I think, uh, really have, uh, you know, uh, resonated with people because, uh, they're giving voice to the deep frustrations so many Californians have with out-of-control crime, with out-of-control homelessness, with the highest cost of living in the country, the highest rate of poverty in the country, the highest unemployment rate in the country.

So it's, it's bigger than the Democrat versus Republican thing.

It's about returning to common sense and having a quality of life, uh, that, you know, uh, that we should be able to have in the most beautiful state in the country.

So how do, how do you overcome that kind of misinformation?

Yeah, I think a lot of people in California are starting to realize that we have problems here that don't exist in other states.

When you have gas prices that are, you know, $6.10 a gallon, and they're 40 cents higher than Hawaii, which is an island state, maybe there's something about our approach to policy in California that needs to be changed.

Tell me a little bit about that system, because a lot of people may not know that California does it just a little bit differently

differentlyYeah.

So California has had this top two open jungle primary, some call it, system in place since 2012.

So this is what? Our, like, uh, eighth, I think, uh, election in which we've operated under the top two system, and it's like this for, uh, the legislature and for Congress and for the statewide offices like governor.

And so what it means is that while in other states, let's...

If you're a Republican, you run in a Republican primary, and they choose their nominee, the Democrats choose their nominee in a Democrat primary, and then they face off in November, along with any independent or third party candidates.

In California, there's only one primary.

Or maybe the better question is, could that help in maybe reducing some of the polarization we see in politics?

Tell me a little bit about that system because a lot of people may not know that California does it just a little bit differently.

Yeah, so California has had this top two open jungle primary, some call it, system in place since 2012.

So this is, what, our, like, uh, eighth, I think, uh, election in which we've operated under the top two system.

And it's like this for, uh, the legislature and for Congress and for the statewide offices like governor.

And so what it means is that while in other states, let's, if you're a Republican, you run in a Republican primary and they choose their nominee, the Democrats choose their nominee in a Democrat primary, and then they face off in November along with any independent or third party candidates.

In California, there's only one primary.

There's not a Democrat primary.

Or maybe the better question is could that help in maybe reducing some of the polarization we see in politics?

Uh, is it your understanding that America is going to provide ano- this other package of aid to Ukraine or not?

Well, so we did vote, uh, which is what I think you're referring to, a couple years ago for a supplemental.

And uh, of course, uh, you know, that has been, uh, going and there's been questions raised about whether it's go- you know, being, uh, deployed a- as, uh, expeditiously as it should.

But, uh, certainly, uh, Congress has spoken in a bipartisan way before, saying that we need to support Ukraine, we need to deter Russian aggression.

Uh, but as I said, [laughs] that was two years ago, and Congress has not really been actively involved as this conflict has worn on and as so many lives have been lost.

Uh, so I provided the, the decisive signature on this discharge position, which is a way to bring a bill to the floor simply by the members of the House, uh, demanding it.

And so now, yes, in the next couple weeks, we are gonna see a vote in the House, which I think will get pretty broad bipartisan support, to say we're gonna continue to support Ukraine, uh, we're gonna have a lend lease authority, and we're gonna have aggression, aggressive sanctions against Russia.

Uh, could you explain how that connects to the redistricting conversation and the controversy around how America's maps are being re- redrawn?

Yeah

... and that's what I've seen in the three years that I've been in Washington, DC, is that we have this problem of hyper-partisanship in this country, as epitomized by the gerrymandering war.

And I think the way we can move beyond that is to just take partisanship out of the equation.

And I will say, anyone who says this is the easy route, there hasn't been an independent elected to Congress, uh, in 20 years.

There's been one elected to Congress in the last 70 years.

Uh, so I'm very much trying to chart a different course in order to allow-

Do you regret the president kicking off this latest chapter?

Absolutely, I regret, uh, what happened in Texas and in California, uh, and every state that's gone down this road.

What is your response to this trend?

Well, I think what happened to the folks in Indiana is terrible.

I think that those senators did the right thing by saying we're not going to participate in this redistricting war, in this arms race.

I think that if you had had more people like that across the country, we wouldn't be where we are now.

And I think this redistricting war has been an absolute disaster for our democracy.

And now it looks like there's going to be a major escalation of it with no end in sight in a way that's going to undermine fair representation, that's going to further erode trust in our democracy.

And it's going to produce even more polarized districts, even more polarization in Congress.

And yet this administration continues to say things are good.

Does it seem like it to you?

Well, it seems like it's mostly held, although obviously today's activity, uh, is an exception to that, but it certainly isn't anything like we had at the outset of this.

Uh, but regardless, I think that we are well past the time where Congress needs to be more centrally involved in defining the scope and objectives of this conflict, uh, going forward.

Because even [audio cuts out] achieve our, uh, our goals here, uh, as fully as we would desire, uh, you know, in order for those, uh, accomplishments to be durable, for example, if we come up with an acceptable, uh, arrangement to make sure that Iran doesn't reach nuclear capability, for that to be durable, we actually need to have buy-in from Congress.

We need to make sure that whatever is agreed to isn't just gonna be changed by the next administration, and we need to have buy-in from our international partners and allies as well.

And so I think we're at a stage right now, uh, where trying to get Congress and our international, uh, allies, especially the Gulf states, more centrally involved is gonna be very important to the resolution

Uh, what are you hearing from your constituents about how they're experiencing it?

Well, they're definitely not in a good place.