So what do you have to speak to, to the people right now that are, have a relationship with money where there's just not enough? I mean, what, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You know what? I say, you know what? I know what it is to be there.

Um, and that's, you know, going through a valley and, and walking through that, I know what it is to be there.

I know what it is.

I had, um, a, I had a $20 Terrell Davis, uh, for those, for the f- like football fans, he was a running back for the Broncos in the Super Bowls.

And I had a dollar bill autographed by him and a $20 bill, dollar bill autographed by him.

What's the very first step that that person can take?

What mindsets or generational patterns do you see that keep donors and families stuck in reactive giving rather than moving toward intentional legacy-focused philanthropy?

Mm-hmm.

Really, really good.

I think it really connects to that first answer.

I think one is not necessarily seeing good patterns modeled, where you see often patterns where people, like we just talked about, they're giving in an effort to get something, to do something, which again, it doesn't mean that you can't have an expectation of it.

reaping something that you sow.

But that's a very different thing than, again, a quid pro quo.

What when you examine communities with the greatest needs, what do you believe philanthropy alone cannot solve without leadership structure and well designed systems, guiding how resources are deployed?

Um, Bishop, can you take us back to the early days? What did Harvest Church, uh, look like when it first started?

So let me be honest, I did not want to start a church.

So at the time, I was an associate pastor at a church.

I was brought in from, most of my teenage years I was on staff while simultaneously having my own business and stuff, at a, at a very, uh, [clears throat] large church that was in the area.

I thought that was it.

Like, I thought I was gonna do that, you know, for the foreseeable future.

Uh, a shift comes.

Like, if you were my pastor and you saw me come into church with this watch, what would you say to me, or would you say anything to me at all about the watch?

How do you counsel people to sort of deal with, I guess, modern living and so, so much information?

Yeah.

Yes.

Listen, [clears throat] all you gotta do, if I open...

if any of us opens our feed right now, what's amazing is we're gonna see a bunch of stuff that we don't even subscribe to, that we didn't even wanna see, right? The algorithm's gonna feed us a bunch of information, and for most people, they get their news now through social media.

They don't watch traditional, uh, media.

And so what that tells us is that, um, one, some of that is just gonna be put in front of you.

I, I think it would be tough to be a young person, say, "Should I be going to college? Should I be learning to code? Is this, is, is there any point to any of it? Should I become a plumber?" How do you counsel people?

So what do you have to speak to, to the people right now that are, have a relationship with money where there's just not enough? I mean, what, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah.

You know what? I say, you know what? I know what it is to be there.

Um, and that's, you know, going through a valley and, and walking through that, I know what it is to be there.

I know what it is.

I had, um, a, I had a $20 Terrell Davis, uh, for those, for the f- like football fans, he was a running back for the Broncos in the Super Bowls.

And I had a dollar bill autographed by him and a $20 bill, dollar bill autographed by him.

What's the very first step that that person can take?

Is that in, in a way what it means to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I, I think, I think when you look at it like relationship, it's just that.

Relationships are not these linear, everyday tip, toe, and through the tulips.

Anytime I see someone present a relationship that way, I say, "It's over," and both of them don't know it yet.

The only reason it's linear and there's never any friction is because neither one of them are growing and neither one of them are, are really engaging.

Relationships should have, um, a, um, an ebb and a flow.

So how do you sort of reconcile all that?