Kenneth Cloke

Yeah, it was great.

I would, I would put Ken Cloke up there, too, my other mentor.

Uh, we call him the godfather of mediation.

He's a, he's older than, than Bill is, so, um, but, but the, the course I took, the, it was a two-year co-lab called Mediate and Meditate with William, sorry, with Thomas Hubl, and I just finished a course on trauma-informed coaching with him.