... fiction

... an, an interesting perspective because I think you're absolutely right.

I think there's almost this purgatory that leaders are just kind of biting their teeth for a bit and waiting for this moment to pass, where to your point now, 25 to 30% of their workforce is AI agents.

So two quick points.

One, I wanna double down that we cannot humanize these machines.

All my research that I've conducted over the last two years has shown this phenomenon, and now Oracle, who's conducted a very similar survey, has found the exact same thing.

The more that we use AI and view it as a coworker or a teammate, the less we trust our human colleagues and the less we're likely to actually wanna work with humans.

So what do you think is most important for organizations, and, and what are the strategies and the practices that go the distance in that space?

And so, yeah, operationally, what does that look like? I mean, in terms of comms, in terms of support, in terms of how others in the business, I suppose, regard the business and its leaders and HR if they see colleagues being managed out and things like that.

Yeah, you know, talk about an instance of where I think we have completely lost the plot in ways that is actually horrifying to me.

You know, I grew up in HR, so I was an HR business partner.

And I think I might have shared last time on the podcast, but you know, this was 20 years ago, when robotic process automation was coming on board, you know, I had to do a workforce reduction as a result of that tech change.

And we laid off 200 people in one day, but had one-on-one conversations, looked at everyone in the eye, had a 30-minute discussion.

And there were still things we could have done better with that, but it felt a human experience.

And so the fact that we are now normalizing sending emails at 6 a.m. and everyone's waiting at their computer and there's no one available, I just I worry that the technology industry is seen as almost like this holy grail for other industries and businesses because they've been so profitable.

So from the Wild West show into the promised land, if HR gets this right, say over the next three years, say, what do you think the function will look like? The HR function will look like and what will it be doing that it doesn't exist at the moment?

back to just before your previous roles, Meta, Upwork, were you indexing for AI in some of those conversations that you were having? Yes.

Totally.

So someone's going to have to fact check me.

I want to say it was around 2014 when I was at Deloitte.

It was the first time that we started studying AI.

I'm sure Deloitte was studying it before that.

But it was the first time that clients were actively coming to us and saying, what is AI going to do? What is this machine learning? What are all these algorithms about? And so it was long before ChatGPT came onto the scene, leaders were beginning to think through, there's got to be a better efficiency play here.

Can you break down those concepts for us?

Yeah.

It is.

So I think we're in a convergence of factors that is not working in our favor right now.

So let's not forget just a few years ago, we were in this thing called the pandemic and isolated from each other.

And no one wants to talk about it anymore.

We just want to move on and forget about it.

But I think it fundamentally shifted the way that we view each other, both within organizations, but also society.

Like, what are you seeing from the interaction? What are you seeing from your research? Like, what are some of the trends?

Tell us all of it.

Oh, totally.

So I am from a town called Rochester, New York, and hopefully most people have heard of it because of Kodak.

Back in the day when we were using, you know, nice cameras.

And so it was interesting, like during a formative age, so-called middle school, junior high, I was looking around me in my classroom and kept seeing students.

not show up the next day.

And I'm like, what's going on? Well, what was happening is Kodak was shedding 45,000 jobs during that time period.

yeah i love this because i'm indispensable

So when you're looking at the generations and the differences in the generations, what are you seeing there? Yeah.

Yeah, you know, every time we talk about generations, I think it's easy to say, oh, well, young people want more meaning and purpose.

And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, all young people don't have responsibility and mortgages and everything.

Like, sure, you want to go, you know, pursue different lifestyles.

But I think that's not what this is about with where we are right now.

I think there's actually a pretty profound shift.

So when I think about generations, and I think about those that are actually sitting on boards today and leading organizations, those are going to be mostly your baby boomer generation, soon to be Gen X, who oftentimes is forgotten.

How for you, what does it look like for you to personally model certain things when it comes to AI? What do you do or don't do that aligns with everything you've been learning and everything you've been teaching?

of industries.

Almost everybody.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a fair point, a fair push.

I think we're at this interesting time where, because to your point, uncertainty is what's actually before us.

Uncertainty at almost every level, whether that's a societal level, government level, the way that we show up and treat each other every day, things have just become really uncertain.

Yeah.

My concern is I believe AI is going to be very transformative for sure.

But how are they showing up to work? And what are some of the challenges that you're seeing with Gen Z and opportunities?

What are you hearing from them, particularly as it relates to what you just talked about in terms of What does it mean to even grow your career or what does a career even look like for this next generation, which is entering a workforce that is different than what you and I did or for that matter, our parents? Totally.

I'm a little alarmed by what I'm seeing in the data and some of the conversations I'm having.

And this is why 30% of Gen Zers today aspire to leadership positions in corporations and That's the lowest number we've ever seen.

And to me, that signals a talent pipeline crisis in many ways of we're doing something at work that as Gen Z looks up, they don't want to be doing these jobs.

And when I go and do interviews and actually get qualitative data to understand this, it's oftentimes because they don't think it's worth it.

50% of Gen Zers think that business may be causing harm, not good for society.

They're very concerned whether or not the planet's going to be around in the next 50 plus years.

I'm wondering where you kind of sit on some of this or what even you're seeing or what you are prescribing could happen, knowing that it's still very uncertain and not very clear.

And if you've been sitting with that quiet anxiety, wondering whether your skills matter, whether your job is safe, and whether you're already falling behind, we have got the answers you are looking for.

Is there reason to have fear around job loss? Yes, I think that's a very rational fear and I think that's okay that people are fearing AI right now.

Happy people don't change and I need more people to change and adopt this technology.

Women have a 16 percentage point more likelihood to be automated out of a job by AI.

So this to me is the disconnect that we have to solve for.

I think AI is the elevator of our time.

Before the elevator was created, we only built about five to six story buildings.

Mm-hmm.