Kate McClymont

And Amanda, complainant M said that he spoke to some people several years later about what he says happened to him.

He told the court that after he read Kate McClymont's article in the Sydney Morning Herald, which was published in late 2023, he decided to tell friends that a similar thing had happened to him, and he named three friends and his mother as someone that he had told that, you know, had they read the article, "Because something similar happened to me."

And when did he speak to police?

He told the court that he spoke to detectives later in 2024, and he began providing a statement which went over, you know, several different times, and that he handed over his phone, and that he found different devices and gave them all over to police.

Mm.

Yeah, until Kate McClymont, uh, starts her reporting on this-

Mm

... and then also eventually talks to C. Um, Peter Fitzsimons passing notes on to Kate McClymont as part of that, kind of indicating it's more of a Kate McClymont story than a Peter Fitzsimons story.

Mm.

Um, Peter Fitzsimons, um, if you're not familiar with him as a journalist, you may be familiar with him as a, uh, former Wallaby rugby player.

Peter Fitzsimons is, I think, as we speak, giving evidence, not an Alan Jones fan.

And when complainant C went to Ray Hadley and broke down in tears, according to Hadley, about the treatment he was being given from his then boss, Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, allegedly, knew that Kate McClymont from the Sydney Morning Herald and Peter Fitzsimons also with the Herald, but Peter Fitzsimons is also a well-known and well-published author, were doing a story on the background of Alan Jones.

And he invited complainant C to talk to Peter Fitzsimons, which according to Hadley in the witness box, he did, but didn't identify himself.

He didn't want to be identified, but it's all getting very, very nasty.

I found it interesting that Alan Jones's defence is saying, you know, there was ambition, there was jealousy, acrimony, and that's your motivation.

Ray said that he spoke to complainants in his office for some time, 35, 40 minutes.

said, do you want to go to management? But is it true that it was alleged in court that Hadley, knowing that Peter Fitzsimons, who, by the way, I don't think Ray has a lot of time for either, but that Peter Fitzsimons and Kate McClymont were onto writing about this sort of material and facilitated the meeting over the phone with Peter Fitzsimons and complainant C?

Yeah, well, a lot of that is still to come out in court.

NMLS 696891.

Amanda, not only did the text messages that were read out in court show the fondness that this witness had for Jones, but we also heard, uh, of some messages where this witness expressed a strong disdain for Sydney Morning Herald investigative journalist Kate McClymont, who of course broke the story of these allegations against Jones.

Can you unpack what he said to the court about what he thought of Kate McClymont?

Mm.

So Kate McClymont came into it because when he got a text from her asking if she could speak to him for her investigation, he forwarded the message to Alan Jones.

He told Jones, "Of course I won't be ringing her back, but if you need me to refute any lies, of course I will." The two of them then spoke, and the court was told that Jones asked him to actually call Kate McClymont and tell her on the record that he didn't see anything, that nothing ever happened, which he did do.

And he wasn't the first witness to say that he'd spoken to Kate, he'd given her quotes, and she d- and he was furious because she didn't print them.

Mm.

... to save Australian journalism, the Judith Neilson Institute? Does that ring any bells?

Yeah, but mostly from a recent story that I absolutely loved, um, from Kate McClymont about Judith Neilson's private secretary, who, like, was a socialite who stole, like, a whole bunch of money, and then-

Ooh

...

So he said, "I, um, read, I read a story" that the Sydney Morning Herald had called him, you know, he said scruffy, but it was speaking gruffly.

Uh, he, he said he'd been speaking to Kate McClymont, another journalist who is also a witness in this case, about ICAC, uh, which he's allowed to do.

He's allowed to talk to people about other things.

Um, but yeah, basically, he said, "Yes, I've, I've seen what other witnesses have said." Um, I mean, at least he was open about it.

Um, that's a wonderful question, Elle.

Thank you very much for emailing thecaseof@abc.net.au. Another one here from, um, Gaye.

She is wondering what happened to the transcript from a conversation with Jason Morrison and Kate McClymont.

Now, this is, uh, something we talked about a couple of episodes ago.