Um, does an e- event like that kind of give us some hope maybe that people can make good decisions, that we won't always just be, I don't know, operating either in commercial or, or national interest, that, uh, maybe we, we can regard certain things as not worth messing with?

Well, so for those unfamiliar with this story, uh, the New York Times broke this on Tuesday morning.

Um, and, uh, uh, quoting my c- well, my dear colleague Vin, who's right back there.

Uh, and essentially, uh, this is a, uh, like a smaller cybersecurity researching firm that, uh, discovered the ability to create an exploit that would've been a zero-click worm.

So essentially, you don't have to do anything For, e-except to be called by someone in your contacts who was also infected with this worm.

And then your entire WeChat account could be taken over.

All of your contacts could then be used to call their contacts.

I think we've corrupted the whole thing with the arms racing dynamic

O- otherwise, we, we just blend them all together, and it's like really hard to decipher.

You know, as someone who ca-- like I ran my first symposium on Linux in '97, right? So as someone who, who started out really in the olden days open source discussions, and then now we're in a mode where people are referring to open weighted models as being open source AI, like I lose it a little bit because I'm like, "This is not open source," right? But arguing about what open source is and is not is a, is a stalwart of the open source community.

I mean, that's like, that's just a day that ends in Y. I think where we need to move the discussion is around what openness is going to look like in artificial intelligence.

I don't think that we will have open source in the way that we've traditionally thought about it in terms of software development, and I don't think that we should conflate the gains that we had from open source in software development.

Open weighted models do not magically achieve those same gains, uh, because they have open weights.

So I think part of this is also just the immaturity of our lexicon at the moment in terms of us trying to find where there's correlation.

But we're going to need to become more nuanced.

And so a rapid respond team, so if there's a bio thing or a bio claim, I think we should have, uh, a team to be able to pull evaluators together, academics, be able to work with the media to say, "Hey, these are the claims, but here are, like, the things, you know, that we can do it, you know, can vet, uh, independently." I think that will bring a lot of trust and legitimacy to the American people, uh, but also with, with our allies as well.

But Kat, I don't know, we talked about this at midnight last night, so maybe you have more coherent thoughts.

I mean, cringing face.

Like angry face, like I don't know.

You know that phrase, to your point on like the model is the A student.

First of all, I feel like if there's anyone here who hasn't seen the Reese Witherspoon movie from forever ago, Election, where she's Tracy Flick, basically Tracy Flick is like embodies what I feel like these models look like.

And I highly recommend that everyone watch it this weekend.

And that phrase of like you never admit, like never attribute to malevolence that which you can attribute to incompetence.

knew that was gonna happen.

It's not a social media network.

No, absolutely.

And it's not just what's happening online.

It's not simply the domestic ramifications of it, right? It's that the U.S.

being a functional, trustworthy country where rule of law is respected and democracy is intact and checks and balances exist, that is a linchpin to an international order in which business can thrive and in which innovation can occur.

And for many years, I think in looking at the sort of, in particular, the kind of rise of the tech billionaires, I've seen in this increasingly libertarian anti, it's not even just anti-governance, but anti-government focus, right? Is that if you're building a company, if you're an investor, if you're private equity, if you're a corporation, your incentives are investor risk.

They're essentially managing for investor risk.

Yeah.