That's a lot of pressure.

Yeah, as soon as, as soon as that association was made, people definitely latched onto that, um, which I, which I understand.

Um, but yeah, no, I, I...

Well, to back up, my main role model in life is Arnold Schwarzenegger, so I love the idea of having multiple careers.

So my first career was in fitness.

I had a personal training studio in Los Angeles and, you know, I knew someday I would go into acting and, and give that a shot.

And, you know, in 2021, you know, we had a lot of time, I think at that time in our lives to think and reflect, and at that point, you know, the business was established, so I was like, "Let's give this a shot." And then, you know, I was like most in that I wasn't, you know, really doing much of anything, at least for money.

I guess, how are you, uh, uh, how does the money kind of come back to, to you guys? You're, you've been a producer and you've been an actor, uh, in a lot of these things.

... is the revenue coming from a subscription-based platform, where, like, if it's free on TikTok, it's, they're trying to drive people to their own subscription platforms? Or is this all just, you know, product placement type things? Or where, wh- where is this money coming from to produce these things?

Yeah, that's a good question.

[laughs] Uh, in the beginning, like the first 10 episodes would be free on TikTok or Instagram or whatever, and that's how they would hook you, and then they would drive you, to answer your question, Michael, to like an app on your phone.

From like Real Short, Drama Box, By Any Other Name.

Uh, like Vanessa said, there's probably over 200 at this point.

And you pay every couple of episodes, like 50 cents here, a dollar there, and that's how it started.

So you would pay sometimes, like, over 50 bucks to watch a single show, because it would prey on your need to find out what happened immediately.

Mm

So what, what's that like discovering that there were fans all over the world that were watching and appreciating what you were doing?

Well, in the beginning, so this is now through 2024, start of 2025, everything was parasocial, all the interaction.

There were no events for fans, no chance for you to actually meet and thank these people in person.

And early 2025, Holly Wolf Graham, the founder of Verticon, reached out to me.

She was gonna be in LA to get a coffee and pitch me the Verticon.

And I was like, wow, this is great.

This is so fun.

Where are you on this whole AI in entertainment, in vertical feeling?

The genre even has its first breakout star in Casey Esser, who some call the vertical Brad Pitt.

It definitely doesn't offend me.

I mean, [laughs] I don't think I would reject that association.

Now with 50-plus series under his belt, he makes around $2,000 a day and plans to start producing with girlfriend/actress, Vanessa Von Schwartz.

No one predicted the, the, [laughs] the introduction of these, but now the goal is to always have a foothold in vertical.

[laughs]