Mm-hmm.

Um, then there's the sex that you're having, like- Is it just the same, you know, if you've been in a relationship with someone for 10, 15, 20 years and you're d- he's doing the exact same thing.

I love how Dr. Stacy Friedman, she goes, "Lips, nips, below the hips." Like, it's like, all right, we have a c- little bit of kissing.

Maybe he, you know, touches my boobs and, you know, I give him a little kiss on the chest.

Maybe, you know, we like the three seconds of oral and then all of a sudden, you know, boom, he puts it in and it's over.

And, like, if you're doing that for a million years...

And, and I have friends, I have a girlfriend, and this, this breaks my heart.

What do I do? How do I approach my partner? What are some things that I should do to get the ball moving back towards her or, or him?" What would you tell them?

So have we not educated men on like what products are available for them? And are there any ones that you found to be helpful for men over 50?

Before I address that, I want to start, but I'm single.

And one of the things I, you know, I've been using vibrators on postmenopausal and I've I cannot tell you how many guys I've dated where we got intimate and I said, well, you know, vibrators are part of my repertoire.

Yeah.

And they're like, oh, you won't need it with me.

Yeah.

So it's like guys don't understand that the value of bringing some tool right into into the bedroom.

Is this what you're talking about on your podcast as well?

And I know that you have done a bunch of things, but how did you kind of arrive at what you're up to now? What was your route there?

It was an interesting route because it was not something I imagined when I was a computer major in college.

I would be doing at 60-something years old.

So it's been a journey, and I'm at the happiest and most passionate place of my life right now.

So it has definitely found me in some ways.

But the story started, I had broken up with a boyfriend and moved out to spend more time in California.

I was turning 60, kind of at a crossroads career-wise.

P spot! P spot!

What have you learned and what do you provide that you think is some of the most precious gifts to a woman who is having issues and has no clue that, oh my God, I need a menopause coach?

So I have to, perfectly honest, I don't really coach.

It's more of a certification, but I do, when I meet people, it's something that I can really talk about.

And I think for someone who's really suffering, it's like any life coach who's very well trained in menopause.

But for me, the conversations, and this is part of the reason I've shifted to work a little more with men, is The conversations are around what's really happening physically, what is happening to your body in menopause, what you can do about it, which back in, I don't know how old you are, but in my day, nobody was prescribing hormone therapy.

Fortunately, my doctor did.

But trying to kind of debunk this whole myth that hormone therapy is bad for you and that it's actually replacing something you've already had.

about you with your world? What she said.

Are we having, are you just showing up, you

know, in bed naked and hoping that she, she'll roll over or he'll roll over, you know? Um, and then it's, it's, um, how's the relationship? How, how are you showing up for each other? I just heard like this really, um, interesting podcast in it.

And it really hit home because it's very much how I show up in intimacy.

And it was this guy who went to this retreat and learned, they did an exercise where the man was holding the woman just from behind like this and how he just held her there, like didn't let her go for like 15 minutes.

And eventually she just kind of leaned into it and relaxed and started to actually feel pleasure.

And I think it's super important.

And I'm sure this is true for men too, but I think for women more so, just feeling safe and comfortable in the relationship.

So speaking of expectations of what people might think or not think when they're in this stage, what do you feel like the expectations that men... need to rethink when they're intimate with women in midlife? Do you think that they need to change their frame, their mindset?

So in the clinic-

And I'm like, "Yep, doctor's orders." [laughs] So I just went and I literally, like it took me less than five minutes, and I came back.

I'm like, "Oh my God, you just changed my life." Like [laughs] that was, that was so great.

So that was kind of the beginning of one, understanding more about my body, two, understanding more about hormones, and three, being able to talk about it.

And, um, I think I was one of the few single patients that they had that always had like these fun stories for them, so we, we really...

But Cheva and I bonded, and she ended up coming to, um...

Sorry.

Mm-hmm

Yes

... um, that's, that's a really big deal, especially for people in midlife.

Because when you're young, we know one sort of sex.

It's intercourse, or penis in vagina for heterosexual couples, and that, that's pretty much it.

And as we age, sex can be many things.

And so when you determine what sex is, what intimacy is with somebody, there could be different levels that are okay for you, and there could be others that aren't.

It...

Okay, so what else do people need to know about talking about their own history, their own past dynamics?

Like that was a lot more energy expenditure to go actually find a partner back then.

And there's no investment either.

I mean, I see it.

I've been on the apps longer than I'd like to be.

I see it.

It's like, you know, maybe I'll get your phone number, but I'm actually not going to make an effort to call you because it's really easy.

No, now I can add, you know, I got another phone number today or, you know, I got another like today or I got another heart.

What are the things that you like to focus on supporting men when they find themselves in that position? Because I know that it brings up a lot of frustration for men and deep feelings of rejection.

She really is amazing.

amazing.The first appointment, they ask all these like very personal questions.

Of course, have you ever been able to have an orgasm? How do you have an orgasm? Do you need clitoral stimulation? Which of course we never think about because who knew that? And, and I'm like, "Well, yeah, maybe.

I don't know.

I think so.

Could be." So I learned about the clitoris.

I learned about all of that.

And for many folks, especially women and people reared as girls...