Kai Bird

I think those have kind of peaked, and I think people sometimes get weary of political books and foreign policy books and things.

So I do think, you know, we just had this brilliant biographer, Kai Bird, the book on Roy Cohn, American Scoundrel.

He was here last week with his wife, Susan Goldmark, who also was his researcher on it.

And that book debuted at number two on the bestsellers list.

I want to point out the book that Jane was referring to is American Scoundrel, Roy Cohn's Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump.

The author of that book, Kai Bird, is going to be with us on October 12th.

And for people that don't know, he was counsel to Joe McCarthy, a major scoundrel and a guy that did a lot of damage all around the country.

But the big thing about Roy Cohn was that he taught Trump, just lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, and people will believe the lie.

Yeah, she's driving very responsibly on her way here.

So we'll begin our conversation with Shirley on the phone.

She's, of course, a Boston Globe business columnist, host of the Say More podcast, co-author of the great Power Play newsletter, and a BPR contributor.

Hello, Shirley.

Well, it began, as most stories do, with a tip.

A friend of mine in the intelligence community said, hey, this guy Keith Bass, who used to be head of CIA Office of Medical Services, is up for nomination to be the head of the Pentagon's health services, which is a much bigger job, as you might imagine.

I'm deeply honored and humbled to be nominated for the position of Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs.

I'm grateful for the trust placed in me by President Trump and Secretary Hegseth.

And these are harassment suits.

And he was tutored by a famous lawyer.

malicious lawyer by the name of Roy Cohn, and there's a great new book out about Roy Cohn by my friend, Kai Bird.

Roy Cohn taught Trump to always attack, never defend, just attack, attack, attack.

I want to point out the book that Jane was referring to is American Scoundrel, Roy Cohn's Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump.

The author of that book, Kai Bird, is going to be with us on October 12th.

And for people that don't know, he was counsel to Joe McCarthy, a major scoundrel and a guy that did a lot of damage all around the country.

But the big thing about Roy Cohn was that he taught Trump Just lie, lie, lie, lie, lie.

A scholar and advocate of human rights, justice, peace, and equity, she has over 20 years of experience working on these issues across the Middle East and North Africa region, as well as globally, and she provides policy recommendations to senior government officials in the US and Europe.

And then finally, we will speak with Kai Bird and Susan Goldmark about the wannabe mafia boss in the White House who has modeled his presidency on the rules his mentor, Roy Cohn, taught him.

One, never settle, never surrender.

Two, counterattack, countersue immediately.

Three, no matter what happens, no matter how deeply in the muck you get, claim victory and never admit defeat.

Kai Bird is the acclaimed biographer and journalist who, with Martin J. Sherwin, won the Pulitzer Prize for Biography for American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, which was the inspiration for Christopher Nolan's Academy Award-winning Best Picture, Oppenheimer.

And his new book, co-authored with his wife, Susan Goldmark, is American Scoundrel: Roy Cohn's Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump.

And before we begin, for over a decade we have warned that Trump is both a criminal and likely a traitor, not to mention he's mentally unstable, egomaniacal, woefully ignorant, wildly incompetent, insatiably greedy, and spectacularly corrupt.