But I do want to know, going back to the beginning, what were the movies or the people that sort of made you fall in love with movies?

Yeah.

It's funny because unlike a lot of critics, I think, I didn't grow up watching a ton of movies.

I was very much, you know, like a lot of kids, I was into Disney animation.

We had The Sound of Music and The Wizard of Oz on constant rotation, but I wasn't like that.

movie fiend where in fact i remember i have a memory of my dad encouraging me to watch like et and i was like no i don't watch et it's scary creepy um no and then i years later i saw him love et but you know i did not grow up with those spielberg lucas staples that so many i think i was like 18 when i first saw my first star wars movie um and they'd been out for a while um so but uh and it's funny because in terms of becoming a critic or becoming interested in criticism My love for movies really evolved in tandem with my love of criticism.

Like I looked to critics to like, I would start watching movies like when I was maybe a preteen or teenager in a more serious way than I had.

No, that was

[instrumental music] I was thinking about what really is the breakthrough with these movies? Like, is it their Internet-ness, the youth of the people making them? Like, what is it that makes them interesting and feel like they've captured a zeitgeist?

It is rooted absolutely in the directors who I didn't know anything about, but their fans did.

Um, I'm not plugged into YouTube culture, but their fans are.

And so it's like there's a kind of, you know, almost new generation of auteurism that is being talked about here, and that to me is heartening because regardless of whether they're getting their start on YouTube or not, that, that is kind of immaterial to me.

I know a lot of people make a big deal of that, but I care less about that than the fact that filmmakers actually are creating a following, that they are actually, that the idea of, of cinema as, um, a director and writer, but also especially a director-focused dri- driven medium, and this idea that you care about the personality of the person, the artist who made it, um, that's meaningful to me, and I think that's, you know, the-- it's the, uh, the fact that they, these directors have something of a cult following beforehand that then propelled this interest.

Um, uh, it's, uh, i- it's interesting to see.

And will they see, like, the-

No, no, of course not because it's like they won't, you know...

Well, the filmmaker has said this movie is about consent and like the meaning of consent and, you know, the meaning of sort of making someone love you, which I think is kind of interesting.

It's exactly right.

It's in conversation with the consent issues.

It's in conversation with absolutely what you said, Mary, about, you know, the fear of revealing yourself.

I mean, she even asks him before he makes the wish point up straight up, like, do you like me? And he kind of hedges.

So it's about...

He's scared as hell.

What makes this moment different from that one? Or is it different?

I was thinking about what really is the breakthrough with these movies? Like, is it their internetness, the youth of the people making them? Like, what is it that makes them interesting and feel like they've captured a zeitgeist?

zeitgeist?It is rooted absolutely in the directors who I didn't know anything about, but their fans did.

Um, I'm not plugged into YouTube culture, but their fans are.

And so it's like there's a kind of, you know, almost new generation of auteurism that is being talked about here, and that to me is heartening because regardless of whether they're getting their start on YouTube or not, that, that is kind of immaterial to me.

I know a lot of people make a big deal of that, but I care less about that than the fact that filmmakers actually are creating a following, that they are actually ...

That the idea of f- of cinema as, um, a director and writer, but also especially a director-focused, driv- driven medium, and this idea that you care about the personality of the person, the artist who made it, um, that's meaningful to me.

And I think that's, you know, the ...

And will they see, like, the-

Anura tells the story of a New York sex worker who falls in love with the son of a wealthy Russian oligarch. Produced with just $6 million, the film was directed, written, edited and produced by Sean Baker, who swept those categories and is now tied with Walt Disney for the most Oscars won in a single night. For more on Sean Baker's sweep and other highlights from the Oscars, I'm joined by Justin Chang, a film critic at The New Yorker who also reviews movies for NPR's Fresh Air. Justin, welcome back to the NewsHour. So, what did you think of the Oscars this year, and in particular, the success of Anura, which as I understand it, takes on a marginalized community and at least, I've read, destigmatizes and humanizes sex work?

Yeah. Thank you, Stephanie. Uh, it absolutely does that. And this is something that has been very meaningful to Sean Baker throughout his career. He has repeatedly and consistently made really interesting, smart movies, uh, about sex worker characters. Uh, Starlet, uh, Tangerine, Red Rocket. Um, and so, he is not a filmmaker, uh-Many of us critics who have been championing his great work for many years, who necessarily was inevitably in line for an Oscar win. So it's really gratifying that he won, that a movie as strong as Aonora, uh, winning five Oscars, um, and in all of those (laughs) categories that you mentioned, um, you know, winning four Oscars for Baker alone, and Best Actress for Mikey Madison, uh, it's pretty remarkable. I also think that many of us feel, uh, this is one of the better outcomes to a very long, fraught, and controversy-plagued (laughs) season that we are all extremely happy is over.

Justin, this isn't the first time in recent years we've seen a small budget indie film win Best Picture. And we also saw multiple wins, including Best Actor, go to The Brutalist, starring Adrien Brody. What has changed in the Academy to bring these films to the forefront?

I think that the Academy is becoming a more diverse, uh, membership, a more international membership, uh, due to concerted efforts to diversify its ranks. Um, it's a younger group, a more globally minded group. Many members now live outside the US, and I think their taste has actually become more sophisticated. This is not the first time, as you say, Stephanie, that an independent, uh, low-budget film, uh, has won Best Picture. And I think that both Aonora and The Brutalist speak to the, um, the high regard for these movies, even if they aren't setting the box office on fire. Both movies made at, for $10 million or less, um, as the filmmakers have, have been drawing attention to. Both movies have grossed about $40 million worldwide. Um, it's a very good thing that the Academy is able to separate, um, big hits, uh, from, uh, you know, excellent movies. Um, and that's why I'm very grateful that Wicked did not win Best Picture last night. One of a few reasons, actually.