Just society

I think as he gears up to become Taoiseach, you will definitely see a much more pronounced political ideology from Simon Harris.

Okay, but if you look at that, Louise, go back into the history of Fianna Gael, and we talk about centre-right, but you go back to the 60s, you've Declan Costner and the Just Society.

You go back to the 80s, you have Gareth Fitzgerald, and I think the label at the time was constitutional...

Oh, I forget what it was now specifically, but the gist of it was a more caring type of Fianna Gael that was there in Gareth Fitzgerald's time.

But okay, if I remember correctly, Fine Gael has always been sort of caught up in this dilemma as to whether it is moving more centrist or more left or stays on the right.

So if you go back, wasn't it John A. Costolo with the Just Society, which was a big thing for Fine Gael in the 60s? despite what he did on the abortion referendum in the 80s, there would have been the perception that Gareth Fitzgerald was very much always looking to liberalize.

Maybe then with John Bruton, there would have been a perception of a swing back to a certain extent because John Bruton would have very much have had those, shall we say, Christian Democrat values and he wrote extensively about them, particularly after he stood down as Taoiseach.

But then I suppose Leo Varadkar, yes, would have been very much more, yes, But wasn't an awful lot of that in keeping with what people wanted at the time? In fact, wasn't an awful lot of Leo Varadkar's popularity initially down to the fact that he was felt to be leading Ireland in a more modern direction, that people wanted that, that he suited