1997, what's your relationship like as a Spurs fan with Chelsea at this point?

Well, to be honest, back then, you didn't really have this sort of tribal feeling about other clubs at all.

I mean, I had nothing against Chelsea for a long time, not till the Mourinho era.

I mean, before Matthew Harding started pumping a lot of money in, you know, they were sort of mid-table, bog-standard, a bit like us.

Certainly didn't regard them a threat.

And...

i don't sort of i didn't even really know any chelsea fans because back then um you didn't go around saying you know what's what club do you um it just i was living a very middle class life in a very middle class suburb of london um and my main social life was sort of the school game and you don't go up to another sort of middle class mummy and say oh you know what team do you support it was like that um And nobody sort of boasted about being a Spurs fan or a Chelsea fan.

now age 33 and the opportunity arose to came back to Spurs so Julie we discussed on here he left the first time as a hero amongst Spurs fans but of course he'd really pissed off Alan Sugar in doing so Sugar infamously told the nation in a BBC interview that he wouldn't wash his car with the shirt that Klinsman had gifted him so how did the transfer come about what's the story behind it

But, you know, David Howells, he's not a Blanche Flower, a Micaiah Greaves, a Harry Kane, but he should be in that sort of tier of really important Spurs players, shouldn't he? What do you see his role in Spurs history?

Well, I have this theory about a certain type of player.

They're egg and chips players.

They are very plain, but as Jamie Oliver once said, there's nothing wrong with egg and chips as long as it's done properly.

And I think David Howells was that kind of player.

He was an incredibly intelligent player, very versatile, great spatial awareness, and he worked very hard.

But, you know, people just didn't really notice him, even in his pomp, because he just wasn't flash.

So it's at this time, and Gerry Francis has discussed this previously, discuss it on the podcast it was around this time that he offered his resignation but alan sugar persuaded him to stay on so really we kicked the can down the road for a few weeks it seems honorable on both parts that they both stuck at it but i think it seemed pretty obvious at the time that it was time for a change in the in the dugout julie what are your enduring memories of jerry francis and you know do you think there was any is there any parallel universe where he turns things around at this point

I do

...

I mean, that is something which really does make me feel optimistic that, that he will come back, and he will be as good as he ever was, um, which of- sometimes isn't, isn't the case after an ACL, but [clears throat] he is gonna be fantastic for us.

I, I, I'm hanging onto this.

Even when it sort of all goes pear, when come the autumn and we meet Chelsea for real, and, uh, it's the usual shit show, um, I'm hanging onto the fact that Xavi will return and everything will be wonderful.

It's all gonna be sunlit uplands, definitely.

Yeah

... especially if, uh, Maddison is, is still a bit crocked.