And before we jump into it, can you introduce yourself to our listeners? Talk to me about where your journey as a singer-songwriter began.

yeah i mean so my name is julia bell and i started basically making folk music i used to busk on the streets with my twin sister in australia where we grew up and then i became a solo artist and i really am inspired by people like hosier and gabrielle aplin and i love making music like that and i last year released my debut ep dreamland which was all about my mental health and struggles with OCD.

And then this year, I'm kind of transitioning from folk into more atmospheric indie pop, but I'm still staying really true to that kind of confessional storytelling that comes with folk music that I really fall in love with and other artists.

So yeah, I'm in the current rollout of my sophomore EP, which Aurora is the first single from.

What about that moment did you want to go into and explore more?

Yeah, I think the song kind of told me what it was about itself as I was writing it.

So basically one night there was all this buzz about the aurora being visible in Wellington and I really wanted to go and chase it.

And the person I was telling me was like, no, we can't do that.

Um, what have you learnt about human behavior from running these workshops for so many years? I know you've mentioned a little bit about that already.

Well, I think a lot.

I mean, I've distilled as much as I can into the book, and then I finished the book and realized that there probably was another book on top of that that I could, I could add to it.

But a lot, because, you know, sharing something that you've made with a group of strangers is incredibly val- It's very vulnerable to sort of, you know, students often sometimes have been shaking.

They're like holding the...

I remember, you know, they're just like, "Oh, it's frightening to..." But once, once they get over it and they, they get to know each other, they feel safe.

But to begin with, it's a really difficult thing to do, and I think that that being vulnerable with other people is a very powerful thing.

Mm.