Judith Simmer-Brown

grow up in and then grappling with those ideas of if I don't do everything, does that equal I'm doing nothing? And that these sort of questions that we can keep coming into.

And one of the things that I was thinking of as you both were talking is There was some article I read once by, or an essay by Judith Simmer Brown, where she talked about, we get so caught up like in relationship being like, is it my fault? Is it your fault? Is it my fault? Is it your fault? That we forget to just relate to our broken hearts.

And I think that feels like you called it centering into grief, Liz.

And that feels like this place is where I try to take most clients because I We get so quick in the outrage and who's to blame, or then we're suddenly looking at our own complicity and, God, what have I purchased and who am I supporting? And we're not just staying with, I hurt, I ache, this hurts.