Yeah

...

the amount of control that we actually have.

But let's say that it's a resource that can be depleted.

So that means it sets us up to blame ourselves for something that we probably don't have very much of in the first place.

And so if you look at every single diet program that I can think of, and there are tons of them out there, every single one is based on willpower.

Just eat this and not this, right? Just count your calories and do this.

Good.

This is wonderful.

Yes, I really do believe that curiosity is a superpower.

So take the ice bath, for example.

Somebody might think, why the heck would I want to get in a freezing cold bath of water and sit there for five minutes, right? And so we can be conditioned to run away from things that are unpleasant.

That's how our brains work.

And that kind of feels like, oh no, like, oh no, really? You want me to get in this ice bath? Are you kidding? Which here's a lot of, let's say, emotional territory with anxiety, where worry is that mental behavior of, oh, no.

Right.

What does your research and experience say about such phenomena?

Yeah, absolutely

... that line, line up all of the science behind them.

So, so they can read that Substack article on the Hawthorne effect or the observer effect.

But the idea is that when we, uh, when we're identified with a thought, that thought can yank us around and it can take us for a ride.

And if we fight with our thoughts, you know, there's this saying, "What we resist persists." And so if we fight with our thoughts, they're gonna stick around even longer.

We're gonna fuel them.

So what can we do instead? Well, we can start observing them, and if we observe our thoughts, then that observer effect kicks in and we can notice that these are just thoughts that come and go, and we can kind of watch them.

Yeah.

And so how does worry work as far as the brain goes? Like what's happening? Why does it become like such a habit?

Well, there's a part of the brain called the default moon network that gets activated when people worry.

In fact, there was a study over 10 years ago now from 2014 showing that the more people worry, the more it gets activated.

And my lab actually just is finishing up data collection from a three-year study that we've been doing, looking at mindfulness practices that can be used to specifically target that brain network.

We had found back in 2011 that that same brain network gets deactivated in experienced meditators.

And now we can do, you know, prospective randomized controlled trials to see if if we can actually target that using mindfulness training.

So stay tuned for the results of that.

How do you feel about the current movement around anxiety? And do you think people should be very careful about how they self-diagnose themselves online? Well, yes,

of

the judgment, internal, external, whatever equipment.

And we can also, so it helps us be able to recognize that.

And then also helps us be able to kind of meet that with this curious awareness.

So for example, you know, if something isn't working like a technological glitch in a podcast, We can go, oh, crap.

And when we do that, our mind, whether it's judging ourselves, judging the experience, judging whatever, that kind of closes us down and puts us in this kind of constricted, contracted, frustrated mindset.

which ironically makes it harder to step back and problem solve.

But if I can become aware, it allows me to make a different choice and bring more of my finish that for me what is i'm aware that that's working but i'm not sure why