Josh van der Flier

The back row is just so hard.

You see someone like Scott Penny or Max Deegan who are quality players And now what? They're there 10 years in the programme and are very important parts of the Leinster squad, but just haven't been able to push, obviously, Jack Conan or Caelan Dorris or Josh van der Vleer out of the starting team.

And that's credit to the three lads.

So, underneath that, yeah, there's some talent there.

Do you know of our-

...

Josh? Yeah.

Um, and like, I think were always willing him to get his shot and that he just never, either through misfortune of injury on various things, he just never, I think, got a clear run of games to tr- to try and establish himself in any jersey.

And then he suffered from a very similar thing to, like, Josh van der Flier suffered from for a good few years, which is just too good as a utility.

Just can cover too many positions and therefore is always your number 23.

So he's in lots of squads, he gets lots of game time, but he's not getting any time to establish himself anywhere in particular on the pitch.