And they deserve to not be one dimensional or to be the headline opportunity or movie deal opportunity for somebody who had more power than them.

Looking back, when you have the opportunity to go a little further and maybe sell it as a movie or sell it as a doc series or documentary feature, when I look back now, the way we told it in the podcast is maybe the way it needed to be told.

It's a very pure sort of version of the story that there's no opportunity for it to be distorted because it's coming directly from the two people that spent an insane amount of time putting this together.

So perhaps that's what it needed to be because what Beth and I always talk about is Once, as a podcaster, you put your version of the work out in the world, anyone who genuinely wants to know about this case now has to listen to this version of the story.

Very happy about that.

I mean, do you want to know about Helen Brock's case and her life and all of that? The version that we've put out there is the version that you should hear.

So again, I take consolation in that we've changed the trajectory of the media perspective of Helen Brock's case for the better.

Has this case ever come up in relation to VDoc, or is this not something that you guys would even consider covering at VDoc?

And we will argue,

For anyone listening who would like to have a partner and make a podcast, you will argue.

You will certainly argue.

You will stand your ground.

You will lose ground.

We had a lot of that because I'm just going to put this out there.

We've disagreed on a lot of things about what we...

And