[laughs]

Uh, the, the White House already had a bit of a downer on Anthropic.

Um, so there's all of those factors.

But ultimately the question is, uh, is it a risk and am I feeling in control? So, um, what we're seeing...

I mean, what you know is that, uh, Anthropic weren't able to switch off Anthropic for non-US, uh, citizens or employees, and so they had to go, "No, we've gotta kill, we've gotta kill the whole thing.

Hit the kill switch." Um, from everyone else's perspective, also w- add the dimension that AI is evolving rapidly, uh, which I'll come back to, but it just becomes, oh, I need to update my inherent view of risk, uh, from this perspective.

So a, a bit like when the International Criminal Court Hotmail account was switched off, uh, at, uh, the White House's request, um, and suddenly they couldn't use their Microsoft email.

Mm-hmm.

Is that how police usually respond?

You know, I think what people at the scene told me is that the ICE officers were giving contradictory orders.

So one officer is saying, get out of here.

And it appears that the driver is trying to get out of there.

One officer is trying to get her out of the car.

You see their hand on the handle of the door.

And from the law enforcement perspective, what Police typically say after a shooting, almost immediately, and this is, you know, we can say it's local police, state police, national police, is that they felt in fear of their life because that's how it's legally justified to use lethal force.

Do you think the reaction is different in any way these years later?

Is that how police usually respond?

You know, I think what people at the scene told me is that the ICE officers were giving contradictory orders.

So one officer is saying, get out of here.

And it appears that the driver is trying to get out of there.

One officer is trying to get her out of the car.

You see their hand on the handle of the door.

And from the law enforcement perspective, what Police typically say after a shooting, almost immediately, and this is, you know, we can say it's local police, state police, national police, is that they felt in fear of their life because that's how it's legally justified to use lethal force.

Do you think the reaction is different in any way these years later?

And I had a great time.

After the Nashville trip and the production of the now classic God and Money episode, still one of our most listened to episodes of all time, Dan quickly became essential to the BibleProject podcast.

I started having him edit episodes of the podcast, and then at some point it was enough work, and he was interested in moving out here that I was like, "Cool, we could hire you to do this." So I was, Dan.

[laughs] With the addition of Dan, there was now an official team supporting the podcast.

Still, podcasting can feel like talking into the void.

There's no faces to observe, no follow-up conversations, no instant feedback

What continues to inspire you about these conversations?

There's one podcast in particular I remember finding about five years ago, and it was a guy who was evangelical Christian, who became an atheist, and then kind of found his way back to Jesus.

Yeah, yeah.

Why such a hu- I mean, Moses being disqualified from going to the Promised Land is a big deal, and it's such a small-

Mm-hmm

... you read this and you think he didn't make a mistake.

He knew what he was supposed to do, and he decided not to do it.

What they liked, Latin American music.

Well, uh, at the beginning, before he traveled to America, he was b- basically playing high ...

A jazzy form of high life.

And w- how would you define high life?

Uh, high life goes back to the 1880s.

It's a very old type of music.

Africans, um, at that time, they were colonized, so they had to learn the white man's culture, but they had their own culture.