So we would right now they're renovating Terminal 3, I do believe, but maybe they would have been quicker to do that.

It probably would be quicker in the private sector because the private sector tends to make these decisions more quickly.

And they're looped into the industry.

If you think about it, the government, they're experts at being government.

Whereas people who come in to operate airports, they're experts at operating airports.

But it threads down into other things like procurement, for example.

You know, when's the right time to go out and buy, say, snow clearing equipment or building maintenance equipment or new lights for a runway? When's the right time to close a runway? a government might make that decision more in a political lens, whereas the private sector will make that decision based on the operation that's right in front of them.

I'm wondering, with the amount of land that exists at Pearson alone, Are there other airports that for the same amount of land have more terminals and putting more planes through? Do you know what I mean? Can you expand that real estate with more terminals rather than building another airport?

Does any like how hard is it to stay in if you do not have the money?

Well, I mean, it's very hard because, you know, it doesn't it isn't all about money.

I mean, you can get a lot of attention for yourself on the debates and on radio and TV and so on.

But I think if you want to run a campaign where you have a bit of an organization, you might do a bit of social media advertising.

You even want to print a brochure.

You know, if you want to do any of that, it requires some money.

And of course, we're not just dealing with printing a brochure for 10,000 people.

Is the left behind it to split the right vote? Is Nick Kouvalis, your friend, behind it because he doesn't like the way maybe Brad Bradford treated you before? If you're going to be a serious candidate, he just doesn't appear like he's walking the talk of the serious candidate.

Why is this important to the city of Toronto?

Well, I mean, we have established ourselves as a film capital, you know, over the years.

And I think TIFF was a big part of that, but so was a very capable industry we have here where we produce, as you know, many, many international and domestic television programs and films.

And that industry by itself employs about 40,000 people in the GTA.

And so I think a big part of that is TIFF because we became known from a standing start 50 years ago as one of the best film festivals in the world.

And so, secondly, I would say it is, you know, and I'm not being mean to Toronto.

I love Toronto, as you know.

Are you worried about that impacting the festival going forward?

But what do you see here? Anything?

Well, I see two sides of relief.

I mean, the first side of relief would come from the government, because even losing one seat, it wouldn't have meant that much in a big majority government.

I think they have 79 seats.

But it would have been a bit of a kind of a chip in the armour, and people would have said, oh, you see the blooms off the rose and all that.

That did not happen.

So there was a sigh of relief there.

She's promising property tax rate hikes at or around inflation moving forward.

What do you make of how we handled it?

Well, let's just talk about a couple of them.

I mean, the parkway is the one people sort of, you know, see the most.

And indeed, all that money has been spent.

It was an investment that was made through the whole time that I was there, a billion dollars plus to redirect the Don River.

So instead of turning right, turning west at the bottom, it goes straight into the lake like it originally did.

What that did and what that is meant to do was to stop the flooding of Riverdale so that in a truly catastrophic storm that might have lasted for like two days like we had yesterday, Riverdale would have been in a catastrophic storm, totally flooded like you see in other cities like Winnipeg and so on.

And intriguingly, this also compares these impressions to actual crime stats, and Toronto is relatively safe.

Thank

you, Jim.

And I will say I'm in the Bay and Bloor area and I was looking at the window of the building I'm in and I actually sent a video to Ben Harrison, your producer, And I've not, you know, I've lived my whole life here, and you see a lot of storms.

But the small trees that are planted along the street were sort of bent over with the wind.

The rain was coming down in sheets.

It's abated now quite a bit.

But I heard the women just describing their experience in their car, and it was scary even sitting inside a building to see the strength of this storm.

Yeah, no,

But what is going on? Why is there this boil?

Well, I think it's just really there's a couple of things at play.

I think shorter term than the 2030 mayoralty, which you can't control anyway.

That's a long time from now.

So is election day, even this year, a long time from now in politics.

But I think, first of all, it has to do with this year's mayoralty in that I think by positioning some of the people as she and Progress Toronto have done, Mayor Chow is trying to enhance her own chances to win this time.

If you can get a Mike Layton, for example, to come in and have a higher profile kind of contest and thus increase the turnout in that ward.

I find them fascinating because I don't think we can necessarily call them shadowy, but they don't have a major profile, but they run the table in Toronto politics very much in favor of the NDP.

No.

Well, that's so true.

And Mr. Alexander is going to have a big decision to make not long after that first scheduled debate, because I think the deadline comes up where you can withdraw from the race, which I think, you know, I wouldn't rule that out that he would do that, depending on how he's doing.

I think it's important he gets a chance to be on a debating stage because it's probably the only situation in which he'll be sitting at a table with probably just the other two, Chow and Bradford.

And so I think you're right.

Brad Bradford does not want Chris Alexander to get profiled because that profile he more desperately needs because people still haven't heard of him.

Mr. Bradford, on the other hand, I think if he can be likable in the debates, and I'm not kidding about that, if he can be likable, then he wants.

And what about her strategy as the incumbent? I mean, do you talk about your record? Do you talk about what you're putting forward for reelection? Do you tramp on your on your opponents or is it a bit of all three? Because you you come to the table with the job already, which makes it a bit different than other candidates.

Um, okay, but would it shock you if you found out they did?

I guess I draw a line.

Uh, the Liberal Party I know when I was out campaigning, for example, they followed me around and recorded things I said and then used them, I would argue, out of context.

I think that's fair game because I'm out campaigning, I'm in the public, I'm on public streets.

Um, and I think that that's fair game for any politician 'cause you're out in, in the streets and so on.

Um, I, I, uh, they sent down to my place in Florida a, a drone, and this was not the Liberals but this was, uh, Ezra Levant and his, uh, team.

I think that's invasive because it affects not only me but also my family and also my neighbors, and I think that that kind of thing is over the line.

And I thought that was pretty useful broadcasting.

So he's in the single digits.

But, you know, 9% when you have the two frontrunners tied.

And I'm not surprised at that, by the way.

They are both very formidable campaigners.

They both have name recognition.

They've both been around a long time.

So I'm not surprised at that.

that's taken place there because it was done in a very

Uh, [laughs] do you think these ads resonate, or are we just hearing them and seeing them because the government wants us to think about how good they're doing and how comfortable we should be all just reelecting their guy?

Oh, I, I mean, I think it's both.

I mean, they, they wouldn't be doing them if the ads didn't resonate and have value.

And it's interesting that you're seeing both a, a Liberal and a Conservative government running similar ads.

I can tell you, as I'm out talking to people often about just issues of the day, and sometimes it's with an electoral focus and sometimes it's just talking, after the economy The number one thing people talk about is a perception that they don't feel as safe.

And it's interesting because the sta- the, the statistics show that Canada is still one of, if not the safest country in the world.

But what I think people are seeing is they're seeing smaller crimes and perhaps non-violent crimes, but that seem to be taking place all around them, and perhaps a sense that no one's really doing anything.

And but basically weighed in on the side of maybe people who are richer should get more votes in our election system.

I can't argue with anything in that, but I don't know what that means, an urgent strategy.

I'll give you some ideas to happen.

There are things, all things pretty much that I did.

when I was mayor.

First of all, I think James Pasternak is right.

It's time for the three governments to visibly get together.

They should have a private meeting, but be seen to be doing so about how, you know, when you have international people involved in this and that sort of thing, that's time for all the governments to act together.

Or maybe it has to be at the premier or prime minister level.

So just in general, what did you think of the idea?

Well, I don't know how you could say no, that it's a bad idea, because I think right now with the concern about public safety and so on, that more police officers would be a great idea.

It's kind of a bumper sticker campaign promise, and it especially becomes bumper sticker when you know that Mr. Bradford couldn't say how much it would cost.

My guess is we're really talking about 250 new officers on top of the 700 that Ms. Chow has in her hiring plan.

And so the 250 would cost about $38 million, about $150,000 per police officer.

And that's about a point of property tax.

So people, you know, the question you have a responsibility to answer when you make a promise is how much will it cost? And Mr.

Do we factually know that that makes a difference in making sure that these kind of things don't happen any longer? More police on the subway, subway platforms, all that kind of stuff.

Okay, um, I wasn't sure that I would be hustling over online to buy wine from Nunavut in the first place.

Well, I've spent a lot of my flying career traveling through the north of Canada and to a lot of these very remote communities.

And I will say one thing, uh, t- before we get into actually alcohol.

Online shopping and delivery, in particular through Canada Post but also the other delivery services, is so essential now to having a connected life up in the North and to getting the goods and products that we are accustomed to being able to walk or drive down the street and get.

Um, I think, though, what the premiers were speaking to in the North in particular is just wanting to have a stronger sense of control over the distribution and sale of alcohol, as we know that is something that can be a point of struggle in northern communities, and something that has typically a stronger amount of control over it in the North than we see in, in the South.

Uh, and so I think this is them saying, "We wanna just pump the brakes and make sure that we're going to have the appropriate level of distribution control" that's in line with some of their community priorities.

And it does- it doesn't appear that this is a priority for the police.

I, I think it's one of those things where when something happens, the police should then apply stronger enforcement to the people who are offending with it.

Yep.

And she's out making announcements and attending events and so on.

Uh, I think she acquitted herself okay, uh, when the terrible tragedy took place on St. Clair, and that's a test too.

Because while the incumbency is a great advantage sometimes to be out making announcements and doing things, when crises like that hit, you've gotta perform.

So I think she, she's, uh, taking advantage of the incumbency to probably be in the lead over Brad Bradford.

Brad Bradford's been keeping his head down more.

I'm surprised actually at that, but it's tough in the summer if you don't have announcements to make.

Of course.

[laughs]

Um, but the government will steal the platform.

And so, so look, l- it all starts though from the premise when I ran to be the opposition leader, and I didn't have a seat in the House when I ran to be the leader and, and I won.

David Peterson, who was then premier and who had been the opposition leader, said to me, "John, if you win, this will be the worst job you've ever had.

Because no matter what you do, if you're too negative, people will say you're too negative.

If you're too nice, they'll say you're too nice." It's a terrible job in terms of trying to find the balance, and I...

You were talking about Pierre Poliev versus, uh, Marit Styles.

That's a w- a, a policy would be, "We will spend $830 million per year, comma, to do the following."

And, you know, that involves a little bit of small P politics, i.e. you need to make sure you trust these individuals.

That is so right.

I mean, it is a very difficult task and it's difficult in the private sector, too, because you want to get people that have the skills needed to do the job and you want to have people you can work with.

You want to have people you trust.

And so that implies the latter trust that you may have to put somebody in place that is of your same stripe or whatever in a partisan way.

And that is unfortunate because.

The people are best to decide these things.

I was going to say, I'm a little surprised, by the way, with Kathleen's answer, but go ahead, you don't disagree.

I mean, were you ever able to completely divorce your mind from the job that people elected you to do?

No, but that was me more so than some requirement that's written down somewhere.

I totally blame myself for that.

And in hindsight, I wish I had been more disciplined in some way, shape or form or somebody had sort of forced me to take that break because you need it.

I tell the story often.

I told it as recently as yesterday in a different context.

not on the radio but premier davis who had the job that kathleen had he went to his island in georgian bay for a month every july and we were told look we could call of course and we did i talked to him regularly during that month we went up maybe twice in the month with a briefcase full of stuff that had to be signed or read or whatever but otherwise he was there and he took that break and he was fully plugged in And I never did that.

John, your thoughts?

What's your response to the number of times the prime minister has recused himself?

I don't think it's a remarkable number at all.

I went through this.

And so just to have people understand how it worked at City Hall, I had a staff person each time council met, which is once a month, that would have to go through an agenda that had sometimes, as you would know, two and three hundred items on it.

and go through every single one to determine that there was nothing that I had in my business connections or my investments that would represent a conflict.

And I had to stand up, and I know I didn't count the number of times, I think the newspapers did, but dozens of times over the almost nine years that I was mayor.

But to me, that proved that system worked, and what we're reading about today with Mr. Carney is proving that that system is working.

Is there a better system? Is there a better safeguard we could add to this so we're not dealing with these stories?

John, your thoughts?

I sure do agree with that latter statement.

I think we are so blessed.

We just don't have any idea how much we have benefited from people.

You know, I often harken back and tell people who are relative newcomers how dull and boring Toronto was.

And it was.

I mean, if you go back in my lifetime, Toronto was pretty boring and it was pretty small.

70%

I mean, Did consultations ever sway you, or do you, as I suspect, go into it thinking, we know where everybody's going to line up and the activists on whatever the topic is are going to make their pitch, but ultimately you kind of do it because you should do it, but it doesn't really change things? Or did you actually come out of something surprised and change your position or solidify a position because of consultations?

More than once.

And I will say that the performative part, well, the performative part where you have deputations, which is fairly unique to the city level of government because you have them all the time.

And a lot of them are, I mean, literally, you could almost write the script and you certainly knew the names when they showed up because it was the same people.

I'd say the same of a lot of these online surveys, which is where the airport thing, you know, to me becomes a bit more performative.

I said the other day on CP24 that I think they're just buying time by having this consultation because it's really not that scientific and people will just sort of dominate it and manipulate it.

I think the consultations that, you know, work the best, and if you can do it in an organized way but do it in a broad way, are more private, you know, where you can actually sit and people can be honest with you and tell you their story and tell you their, you know, their perspective on things.

John, your thoughts on that?

How did you go into negotiations? How much were you as mayor involved in? Did you know early on, and certainly not looking to take a strike, but did you know early on that you would not take a strike at all costs or have a sense of kind of beyond just the negotiating mandate how big a deal this was going to be, how strong you were going to be at the end of the day on this? Just really, how did things like this evolve when it came to contract negotiations?

Well, I either as a CEO, which I was where we had unions in the company and also as mayor at sort of three phases of involvement, I think most leaders do.

One is the relationship you have engendered with those unions all the way along leading up to the time when negotiations happen.

And that's really important.

It can't just be something where you suddenly start to pay attention, you know, the day before negotiations.

The second is in the setting of the mandate, because obviously as the CEO or the mayor or the premier, you are You know, the ultimate custodian of the public finances and what's reasonable in the context of the workforce as a whole.

And then the third is just to be there.

And for those reasons, I've always really liked it.

How did you go into negotiations? How much were you as mayor involved in? Did you know early on, and certainly not looking to take a strike, but did you know early on that you would not take a strike at all costs or have a sense of kind of beyond just the negotiating mandate how big a deal this was going to be, how strong you were going to be at the end of the day on this? Just really, how did things like this evolve when it came to contract negotiations?

Well, I either as a CEO, which I was where we had unions in the company and also as mayor at sort of three phases of involvement, I think most leaders do.

One is the relationship you have engendered with those unions all the way along leading up to the time when negotiations happen.

And that's really important.

It can't just be something where you suddenly start to pay attention, you know, the day before negotiations.

The second is in the setting of the mandate, because obviously as the CEO or the mayor or the premier, you are You know, the ultimate custodian of the public finances and what's reasonable in the context of the workforce as a whole.

And then the third is just to be there.

And for those reasons, I've always really liked it.

But at the end of the day, Is there much you can do when it comes to affordability? Is it strictly tax cuts? I mean, if you were in office today, what would be the kinds of things that you could honestly, not as a bumper sticker or not as a great line, but what could you honestly do about affordability? Or do they just all talk about it to make us feel better? John Tory, I'm going to start with you.

Well, I mean, I think they mean well, and every bit helps.

I think one of the things I think is it depends whether you're trying to do something of substance or whether you're trying to do something political.

If it's of substance, then the things that, say, Doug Ford has done where he took off the vehicle sticker, the license plate sticker renewal.

froze the gasoline tax and so on, those are substantive.

They're not, I don't think, very political because I think at the end of the day when people go to fill up, the price fluctuates up and down so much, especially now that you wouldn't know whether Doug Ford was taking the tax down or not.

I think that the main thing a politician can do, an elected politician, and this is kind of a you know, a tightrope as well, is to just not get in the way any further.

John, your general thoughts on this issue, because it is one, whether it's about the municipal decision in Waterloo or others, where there is an active debate about the role of judges in 2026.

Okay, so what would be a reasonable number? How many votes did you miss?

Well, I don't know what my own rating is now.

I would say, and this is making an excuse for Olivia Chow or me or any other mayor, that when you're the mayor, you have so many votes.

you know, different conflicting duties.

But having said that, I still think when you think about the fact the council meets for two days, sometimes three, every month, and that's all.

It's not every day.

And it meets for all of those days that, you know, something above 90 should be expected.

I realized he had some legal stuff going on, but at that point, if you're going to miss 341 of the votes, then maybe you should just have resigned.