John, any perspective from your side?

Yeah.

Being a newer campground, one of the issues that we faced when we were building was the, the insurance cost and how is that gonna affect our ability to be competitive and what amenities we could offer.

And one of the biggest examples is something as simple as a swimming pool.

What it would take just to have liability on that pool made it nonsensical.

We just immediately said, "No, we can't do that," because of the risk and the high cost.

And for us to remain competitive, even though we are higher end, we still have to remain competitive.

Are there things that you wanna do that you can't do because of insurance, is the question I wanna ask.

Is that fair to say?

I would agree.

I sometimes have a nihilistic point of view that all the technology, while it's amazing, it allows us to do the things that you and I are doing right now without a whole lot of disruption to our own individual lives day to day.

That being the case, it's accelerating the disengagement, the disconnection, and the distraction at a pace that no other time in history has it been happening at that kind of pace.

That is entirely anti-human.

There's nothing human about it.

We were wired to be together.

Is that something that you'd want to talk about?

So John, take that from there.

Good.

Great.

First of all, it's been a fascinating conversation because I've actually been in another market that- Had similar circumstances with, like the RV market, except it went on a lot longer.

So when I retired in 2012, my family and I, we built two breweries, and that's when the craft beer market was on this side of the curve.

And we, the, when we started out in 2014, when we first opened our doors, it was all about expansion.

It was about being distributed in all, every state, and be distributed in Canada.

... hasn't changed since 19-

John, tell us a little bit, first of all, your reaction to this ballgame before we talk about the

stars of the past.

Well, I'll tell you, Frank, this is a typical Navy-Notre Dame game.

Navy, one of our oldest rivals, puts the finest team on the field for this particular contest.

Navy can't be underrated because Notre Dame, in its bid to fame, is playing a very fast and high-pressure game.

When it comes to this type of a ball game, Navy is up to it and able to handle the situation pretty well.

But I think as time goes on, there'll be a variation one way or the other, but I feel confident that that heavy Notre Dame defensive line will take its toll.

What do you know about

What were some of the biggest challenges you faced during that journey?

During recovery, there was many.

I think the first three months of recovery was just torture for me.

I knew I had to stop drinking, but you see, drinking gave me something.

Drinking made me feel better about myself.

Drinking made me feel as if I was interesting.

It made me feel as if I was worthwhile.

therefore you deal with the sick person.

John, tell us a little bit, first of all, your reaction to this ball game before we talk about the, uh, stars of the past.

Well, I'll tell you, Frank, this is a typical Navy-Notre Dame game.

Navy, one of our oldest rivals, is one of the... puts the finest team on the field for this particular contest.

Navy can't be underrated, because Notre Dame, in its bid to fame, is playing a very fast and high-pressure game.

When it comes to this type of a ball game, Navy is up to it and able to handle the situation pretty well.

But I think as time goes on, there'll be a variation one way or the other, but I feel confident that that heavy Notre Dame defensive line will take its toll.

What do you know about these fellas?

Well, today you saw two fine gentlemen out there, Frank.

What do you mean locking down the decision criteria? Sorry.

When you lock down the decision criteria...

So first, you might think about the process again, the pains in the process, the quantification of the pains, who's involved for each different step in the process, the technical process, plus the decision process itself.

And what you're trying to do is find a champion that can help you lock down the criteria.

The worst thing that you wanna have happening in a sales process is you show up and things are moving around on you.

"I talked to Harry and he says, 'Yeah, John, we're thinking about these three or four things are in the decision process that we're gonna test.'" I come back the next week and things have changed.

Then I come back the next week and things have changed.

How quickly do you know when someone is not very good?