retired Joe Bowen stands out like that.

Correct, correct.

So you look at all those guys in any sport that were able to be attached to a brand, one brand.

That's amazing.

So I figured in 2020, you know, there was a new owner that came in, and I figured, okay, we'll see where this goes.

I was at the end of my contract.

And we could go on here for a long time with this subject, but we're not.

Where do you see the Kraken and how important right now as a franchise and how important is this season to try to get the train back on the tracks a little bit?

But what are your take on things, and what bar has Shane Wright got to work for this

season? He's at a spot now that it's completely up to him.

So throughout his career, and to be fair, this is probably one of the most confounding situations for a young player, whether he put it on himself or others on the outside noise, as he likes to call it, have.

I'm going back to his draft year when he was supposed to be first overall.

He slips to four, the Kraken take him.

We know the history.

We know the developmental curve for this player was slow.

You've got Riker Evans in the mix, Cale Fleury in the mix, and then the question bears, could Tyson Jugnot be there? Could Ty Nelson be there? Could Billy Odovinan be there? What do you make out of this defensive core as we get deeper and deeper into the weeds of training camp and what could be brewing as far as a battle?

What was important to building a team and an identity 41 years ago in a training camp versus...

Yeah.

Brock, it's so different.

It's a great question.

It's so different because...

Two words have emerged here over time.

Collective bargaining.

How does John Forslund define talent? Where is it with the Kraken, and how does it develop?

Johnny, how did you read into the situation with how it affects perception about players wanting to come play in Seattle and the pros and cons that come with it?

I believe that players will have absolutely no problem coming to Seattle as soon as the team comes.

elevates its status in terms of relevance and becomes a winner and becomes a team that perennially gets into the postseason.

Once that happens, no problem.

Is it an issue for other teams in the Seattle market? No.

It's not going to be an issue for hockey players.

It's not going to be a problem someday if the NBA comes back to Seattle.

and

What's your read on the Jason Robertson thing and how Seattle looks in this situation?

Hey, listen, Ian, I endured 10 years in Carolina where it was a barren wasteland, where nobody wanted to play there, okay, where relocation rumors were abounding, where there was an ownership situation.

They finally settled that, and they turned the corner, and they cycled into an eight-year run of greatness and now a Stanley Cup championship, right? Yeah.

This is kind of the way the league is.

And I think once you get over the personal aspect when a player like this says no, and I'm like the fans, I'm like you guys, you know, everybody's like, really? You know, what's going on? And then everybody kind of piles on and they're slamming Seattle and all these different things.

I basically look at it this way.

You know, I really believe, and I haven't talked to anybody about this, but I got a feeling that That part of Jason Robertson's decision to say no to the Kraken and St. Louis and if there was another team, okay, is the fact that he might not want out of Dallas at all.

How important is it to add a guy like Justin Schultz and continue to look for ways to improve player development, especially with the Kraken now getting one more young prospect in Reed?

To win the Cup

...

it, it's, it's a great question, guys.

And what's interesting about Eric Tulsky, the GM, um, first of all, is that, you know, Ron Francis hired him back in 2015.

So Ronnie, uh, this is, um, the organization has to be r- like this.

Let's go out and get the smartest, brightest guy writing blogs based on analytics.

And that's what Eric Tulsky was doing, and a lot of his data at that time was being shared with teams, and teams were recognizing how smart he is.

Mm-hmm

How do you separate what Vegas was for the first 74 games of the season prior to replacing the champion coach Bruce Cassidy with John Tortorella versus what level of dominance they've displayed for the better part of the last two months?

Well, you know, they were, they were a decent team most of the year, but obviously below bar and below expectation for what they thought.

And many people thought they'd run away with their division, and it was a dog fight and, and it got down to, you know, in, uh, the end of March and in April where their management looked at the situation and said, "You know, this is, this is, this isn't a good thing.

This is, this is a situation where nevermind we might not win the Pacific Division," but the Golden Knights were looking at it and saying, "We might not make the playoffs." So the biggest thing that happened for them was the goaltending of Carter Hart at the end of the season.

He, he joined the team, as you know, as a free agent.

Aiden Hill and Akira Schmid had the net all year.

They couldn't get any saves whatsoever.

What buttons does John Tortorella really have to press at this point in net?

[laughs]

... that you get, and you're like, "What? It's been 55 years since this has happened?" Or, you know, yeah, he, yeah, four-plus goals in four straight games, and he ha- You're right.

He's, he's played okay.

I think tonight, you know, it needs to be A plus.

Like, for, for Vegas coming into Raleigh, you know, if there's any kind of conclusion after the four games is that the fifth game is being played in Raleigh.

And, and the Canes will feast on that, and if they continue to, uh, double down on their first periods game in and game out, then, uh, uh, Hart's gonna have to be on the spot and be great.

So they, they obviously need him.

Yeah

Is there more there there than Freddie Anderson just missing the game because he was a healthy scratch, John?

There has to be more to this.

We found out our Billy Jaffe, who does the sideline reporting, as you know, Eddie Olchek's up in the booth with me.

He found out just minutes before the warm-up from a Canadian reporter, a French reporter covering the series for French television, that Anderson was not dressing.

That's all the information we had.

We never received any information other than visually looking at the warm-up to see that Yoder Korchekov was coming out to back up that night during the National Anthem.

Some unofficial reports were coming out that he was scratched.

It just seems like guys are taking some chances to create offense that's leading to mistakes the other way.

But what effect do you think John Tortorella's had on Mitch Marner this postseason?

Well, because, you know, w- it's a great question, Mark.

You know, when, when Torts comes into an environment like this, uh, he doesn't have any history with any of these players.

So he hasn't gone through, like I said, the regular season where every team, the flaws of a player will appear during the regular season.

And that's when the coach starts to, you know, grow sour or try to f- try to get something through to a guy, and then that player kinda pushes back a little bit.

And, and you know, in, in the, in the postseason, players take care of it, and that usually goes away.

And, you know, over the years, you look at the winningest coach in the history of the game, Scotty Bowman, there are many players that couldn't stand playing for him, but they did, and they respected what he did for their, their individual games.

John, I wanna ask you, with this finals, what would be the biggest storylines that you'd look for? If you're trying to sell somebody who might not follow hockey super closely, how would you sell them on this is a series you really gotta tune into?

W- what ha- why, why does Rod Brind'Amour have shelf life with this team?

He's about as authentic as you're gonna get, and maybe to a fault, uh, in some cases.

You know, uh, I'm sure the officials have had enough of him.

Um, but he's not afraid to speak his mind.

He's not afraid to be him, and that's why it works in Carolina, you know? He, he, he's comfortable, really comfortable there.

He, he's, he's part of the landscape in a huge way.

Um, he's one person who's gone through the '02 situation here in the Molson Miracle, the, the series where they came here two games down in '06 and put a rookie goalie in, Cam Ward, and took off, and they won the Cup.

I- I'm curious, um, do you approach being on Canadian TV differently than you do on, in the US?

It, it just seems to be his MO and, and obviously this team responds really well to him.

Well, I think, you know, in that situation, I think he, uh, uh, unfortunately for himself, he, he, he knew what was coming.

I think he, he knew that we're just gonna play here and they're gonna, uh, quote-unquote, "Stiff us again." You know, like he, he does get riled up, and certainly in the regular season, you know, he, he complains about officiating.than more than most coaches, in my opinion.

But the thing about Rod is, and, and people, you know, that, that see him on face value and get a perception based on how he played and the Rod the Bod thing and the super built, uh, you know, unbelievably fit player that he was, committed off-ice training, and how hard he played the game as a player, and the serious look he has on his face all the time.

There's a couple things about him.

Uh, number one, he, he's really intelligent.

Like, he's a really smart guy.

I mean, he was the Columbus coach when they spanked Tampa Bay when they had won the President's Trophy in '19, and now he's gonna do it again potentially with Vegas? I mean, he's gotta be the connection here, right? 'Cause the teams were wildly different.

They're gonna have to have a push." How surprised were you that, as you said, Montreal was able to check Carolina into the ice?

Yeah, a, a, a little bit surprised.

You know, I, I, I think, um, you know, not astonished though, not, not blown away because, you know, if you watch the game as you guys do, you watch the league closely all year, this team's been building.

You know, they, they, they've been working through their, the, the obvious things that appear to all of us, which is their skill, right? So you see that, and you know they're young, and they have this unbridled skill, and they have a terrific power play, and they got a goalie who really took off in the second half, and he's had a brilliant playoff.

Okay, but being around the Canadiens, like on Monday nights for Amazon and, and, and listen- listening to Marty all season, he's talked about a defensive process which is not easy for his team to grasp, not easy for them to be confident that they can play in low-scoring games that would lead them to playoff success.

And by and large, some of these games, in the Buffalo series especially, have been off the rails, so it looked like we're playing '80s-style hockey there for a while.

But they can play a, a tight game, and this is the test.

Um, what do you see is at stake for Carolina in this series?

he's two feet down from him and you would think nothing nothing happened not at

all i know i know and it uh that that just shows you the focus right so yeah i don't i don't know i i mean i just think that again you get you get these matchups the playoff format has created some of this when you have elite teams playing this early um it makes it great now um and again that debate's going to go on forever in terms of if they ever do adjust the playoff system or would you get basically the same thing again you know who knows but i think over time in the nhl we've always seen divisions that have been stronger than others and we've seen you know great titans play in the first round and then somebody goes home and that's what we have here tonight with the game that we're covering Um, you know, they're, they're legitimate.

They're, I don't think the Minnesota wild, I think this is fair.

Have they ever had a better team than this? Um, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

And they might last two weeks and that's unfortunate, but I think Bill Guerin has done a remarkable job doing everything needed, including, you know, getting heftier, putting more meat on the hook here with Nick Foligno and McCarron and Every facet of the game you want to look at, he's checked the box, in my opinion.

I think he's done an excellent job at that.

When you think about how tough they are as well, does it do any good? And not that the Dallas Stars aren't a hard, tough team, but why would you even go down that path with Minnesota? Does it not play to their strengths?

[laughs]

McMann will shoot, and, and I thought McCann, um, shot the puck more last night than he has been, and that was a-- that was good to see.

But, uh, Bobby, his, his trick to becoming, uh, the player he wants to be, and certainly at twenty-nine, and he needs a contract, you know, this is an opportunity, is his consistency with his physical game.

You know, because i-in the negative, and I, I like to be as objective as possible, why was he available? Well, yeah, he's in, in a contract year, there's no question.

But a young player who can skate like the wind, can shoot at will, has a, has an accurate shot, can score twenty goals at least, you know, why wouldn't the Maple Leafs want him? Because he wasn't consistent enough.

He's everything the Toronto Maple Leafs need, a physical player with speed that can complement their high-end skill.

And to be fair, and I s- I've seen him a lot on, you know, Monday Night Hockey with Amazon in Canada, um, you know, that's why he's been moved around their lineup and a couple times been taken out of their lineup.

[laughs]

Do you see him as a conduit potentially to Marner, and that is someone that the Kraken would go after? Or is that just not even a great fit for the direction they want to go with the team?

No, Mitch Marner would help any team, and he's a, he's a superstar.

And he's an unbelievably gifted player that is not only great in terms of the amount of points he can accumulate, but how well he plays too defensively, which is underrated.

He's an outstanding penalty killer.

So whoever gets him will pay a king's ransom to get him.

Um, does he have a chance to come to King County? Uh, I, I don't know, because the Kraken are not, so far, reported as, you know, a team or teams that have been in and around Marner so far as a possible destination if he does not re-sign with Toronto.

That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, and I think, you know, you may be onto something, because Lane probably has an outstanding relationship with Mitch.

How much do you know about her?

Yep.

Um, you know, I think I was pretty clear on what I was saying at the time.

I've been pretty clear in all of my comments about, uh, observing how this team has played, in the past season from one to 82, defensively.

I thought there were some issues there that were never corrected.

I thought special teams took a hit.

I was expecting improvement.

I was expecting the roster that Dan was given, which I felt, and Eddie Olczyk felt the same way.

So, so just to come back to the, to the front office decision that was made, do you have a sense as to what that actually means in practice? Does this mean that Botterill's really the guy and Ron Francis is kind of being kicked upstairs? Is he still going to maintain control of hockey operations? How do you think that plays out?

Well, I, I could talk through this forever, but let's, let's focus on the two guys you mentioned, Beniers and Wright, the two top five picks. A- and I'll ask you a little bit about each of them. Let's start with Matty Beniers. Is he big enough to do this ev- you know, to really be... If, if we're gonna say he's co- you know, in a perfect world, he's a number two center, the, the poor man's Bergeron, all that. Is he big enough to do that?

He's got to continue to improve his strengths. It's a fair point. Um, he made some strides this year. I think he needs to continue to, to work on that. To, to work on his summers and continue to build the l- the leg drive and the strengths, um, because that's gonna help him in the face-off circle. Um, it's gonna help him in a variety of different ways. Um, he still has a powerful stride. He still gets around the ice. He's still quick. Um, but again, I think they're working on him in, in areas that we've seen lately. You know, we- we've seen him, you know, get to the slot more, which is good. Get to the slot in, in the area in front of the net and stop and stay there. Um, that's gonna take a physical toll, you know? And I think he's learning that on the fly. I think he's learning, you know, at the NHL that, you know, how does he adapt his skill set into what really translates into success and that would be it. So yeah, I agree with you. I think he would have to, uh, uh, continue to work on that. I don't think he is 100% there yet, but I can see that happening.

Mm-hmm.

... they're probably wondering why. I think it's so that he gets good match-ups, so that he can stay confident. That he's playing against third and fourth lines from the other side at five on five, and he's not having to play against the first and second line and then getting overmanaged and then losing his confidence. You know, center ice in the NHL, that position is, is really tough and, uh, there's a lot of things that come into play before you even get to your point production. So, in order to get to your point production, most of these players have to be comfortable in, uh, match-ups. They have to know that they're, they're going eye to eye with Nathan MacKinnon and how's this gonna go tonight. Um, you know, that's what Matty's handling. You know, he's handling that and continuing to fit in well with Jaden Schwartz and Kaapo Kakko, right? That's been a good line. But Matty's staring down top end guys every night whereas that Shane doesn't have to. And that's okay for Shane right now, but that'll be the leap he will make next year. And, um, I like what I see. I, I really like the player. I think he's confident. I think he's creative. He's got a great release with his shot. He has seven goals in the power play. I mean, there's, there's a lot here. You know, so, you know, there, there's, there's a l- uh, there's still so much potential that is, uh, uh, evolving here and now we're getting to the point in the franchise where they do have to make a bold move, in my opinion, in the off season. That would be nice if they can get to that, but it's also time to turn the page.