San Francisco,

yeah.

Just launched a global task force on this.

And some of the professors were really on to this and some of my colleagues were on to this.

Others wondered, why do we spend time on this? So, but we did very, we were probably among the first in higher education to really go for it.

And I set the game.

I just said, Hey, we welcome this, but we're careful.

Because they

At the leadership level, organizational level, what advice would you have for companies and other organizations about how to lead in this era of AI in the right way, how they are using AI in the right I'll speak as a scholar

of strategy and leadership, but also as a leader, because I've led several organizations and I've been part of the leadership team of several organizations as well.

So as a leader, often you think you should have the answer to all kinds of questions and you think you should be pretty quick because then you're smart.

You have a quick answer to things.

But of course, these days, you can say that data is almost free.

You can have anything around you all the time.

So it's like it shifts the whole idea that you should know everything.

It's, of course,

So just so people can get a taste of it, what do you, what do you mean by that and maybe a, an example?

It is, uh, you know, there's been a lot of research and a lot of great people writing about curiosity, creativity, and all that, and there, there are certain well-established theories of this.

I've sort of just reinterpreted some of that.

So think of it as the laser and the radar.

The laser is really, you're curious about something.

You're really, it's narrow, it's precise, it's goal-directed.

I need to know this for this particular reason.

Yeah.

you know,

there's all of that stuff.

The ideas leave the body, you know, to put it bluntly, it's not just in the head.

It's actually, and everyone has some sort of an artifact, something to touch and look at.

So that's, that's sort of one, one way of working.

And it does pick up on the five C's.

and you could say yeah critical thinking critically absolutely because it's much easier to think critically about something i don't have a brick here now i'll put up this right when i have a physical thing you can actually talk about it and instead of looking people directly in the eyes and say i disagree they could look at it yeah i disagree with this which is much easier so to some extent it opens up that but You know, critical thinking has been discussed and defined in many ways.

a

Mm-hmm.

This is also why I have chosen to, for each chapter discussing them, I start with an anecdote about ancient times, just to make the point that these are s- not something new.

It's been around all of us to talk about these five Cs.

There's, there's more Cs as well, but these are five I think are absolutely important.

And in fact, these are things that we have been teaching students and, and trying to convey to prac- uh, apprentices and to juniors, and we hopefully become better at as we become more experienced for ages.

The, the, uh, the contribution I'm doing on the wisdom stuff is to use this concept of practical wisdom, which I've been at for 25 years, to say that this is like almost like, uh, to some extent you can even say it's orchestrating all of this, or it is an emergent property of them.

Like, it is what happens when you practice these things for yourself.

Mm-hmm.

... which one should it be, or do they need to cultivate all five?

Um, gi- give it a think in a sense.

The first three, uh, curiosity, creativity, and critical thinking is, is sort of in the mind, a lot in the mind, right? Uh, and, yeah, I will argue from another perspective, it's also in your hands.

But, but you have...

And then think of the other two as, like, communication and collaboration, something you do with others and try to do.

So you could think of them as like a phase one and phase two.

So I'll respond to your question by saying, if you're in an early career, you know, more junior early career role, I think you should practice your critical thinking these days.

So is there a version of the amplification curve that buys back time rather than just producing more and more output? 'Cause like I feel like a lot of times solopreneurs, they'll get going, and then they'll just keep going, even though in theory, AI is supposed to save you time, but if you keep putting that time towards AI, it's like a, a, a loop.

Now, with 126 jobs at risk, which roles in sports and lifestyle specifically at News24 and Network24 are most vulnerable and what redeployment options are on the table?

um so yes um and that's one of our main concerning concerning issues because these are um are important roles within the company so journalists editors uh production and design support are the ones that we are currently aware of um yes those roles are um exceptionally important to organization like media 24 and broader for in journalistic integrity um within within south africa Now, in terms of alternatives, we will explore that with our members and get a formal mandate from them, as well as what they suggest and what we suggest.

But we do think that those members should be redeployed in roles that are available within Media24, that external positions are frozen, so no one is recruited, during during this process externally and that our members get preferential preferential placement in those roles and then um they are considering outsourcing some of these roles and we are going to have to ask them is this the the best way to uh to conduct the business going forward and what what what savings with that um with with that me for media 24. so uh so yes There is those things that we've already looked at and more things that we are going to look at.

So if retrenchments go ahead, what support and severance protections is Solidarity pushing for its members?

All right.

So firstly, in terms of the process, we are representing our members, all of our members in these processes.

So we are consulting on their behalf, which is a situation that could be for an individual employee very difficult because now a journalist is consulting with their head.

Or the CEO or senior HR.

Just for CHROs, heads of talent, people sort of organizing, you know, work as it, as it were, within their company, what would your advice be in terms of what do they need to do and think of to kind of get this right for the future right now?

Whatever I say is within the context of corporate realities, right? You know, it, it is the, the...

Companies are not, uh, uh, volunteer organizations, right? There, there is a job to do, and there's profit to deliver, and there's investments to be made, and there's, like, you know, efficiency to be gained and so forth.

But so, so w- with, w- having say that, said that, I think there's something on the highest level, uh, which is about being a role model, uh, to do this.

Whenever I've been a leader, and I've been a leader of two organizations and part of the team of another two, three actually, and then part of the le- leadership team of another two, it's, it's like if y- you're sitting behind and watching and telling people what to do, that's one model.

The other thing is like, well, you've gotta get your hands dirty, be seeing this.

The COR was just telling you about, about this 50,000 thing.

What, what's work gonna look like in two or three years time, do you think?

What's inside your new book?

Chris, I've spent my career leading and advising business schools and working with executives around the world on what you may call the...

What should we call it? The craft of wise leadership.

I did help invent the LEGO Serious Play method for that reason.

I've been best ob- obsessed with how leaders think, decide, and act in real life, especially under stress and uncertainty, so, and operating within leadership and strategy and, and all of that stuff.

So the book, Human Magic, is really about the distinctive human capabilities that we all, I, I, professionals, but leaders included, must cultivate so that powerful technologies like AI now amplify our judgment and wisdom instead of quietly taking it over.

Anything more we wanna promote, Johan, before we go? Anything we need to plug?

Plug is perhaps not the right way, but I...

right?

All of these business analytics capabilities, big data everything that come in and look at patterns and have evidence-based decision makers on anything and interestingly enough during a year of conversation conversations they came up with this and one of them stopped and said hey with all of this information with all of this data with all of these patterns served on a plate for us through digital transformation what should i as a leader do And that sort of question struck with me because if you have sensors and everything and you get everything, what should you do? Just push the button in a sense.

And you can say with AI, of course, this has been accentuated.

The question is very real and the question is so much more profound now.

So when ChatGPT came in November, early November 2022, it took me a few days and I was on to it.

Two months later, I started, initiated a global task force through this most global business school in the world, HALT International Business School, with campuses in Dubai, London, San Francisco and Boston.

I said, hey, we got to take this on and move very fast because this is big.

And given that context, what can people do who are beginning to use AI or even in the thick of it, start recognizing when those risks are creeping in and what they can do to mitigate the potential temptation to go and use the AI as a solution? hmm