Joel Wainwright

There's the climate leviathan-

Oh, in the book with Joel?

Yes.

Yes.

You know, because that's a really helpful frame as well to think about visioning as, like, kind of giving people some parameters as well, as opposed to saying, like, "Here's a blank piece of paper, write what you think the future's gonna look like." That's like-

Right.

I mean, if I'm honest with you, I think Joel work, uh...

Joel and I, so I should say before all of this, that this is work I did-