Joe Cressy

And that's the politics people talk about.

This was a bit of a strange one because I think you had Brad Bradford is his challenger who has been on council for eight years, but he's not like known for, he's not known like say Joe Cressy was the public health guy who got us through the pandemic or Howard Moscow years ago.

People remember he was the guy who reformed the taxi industry.

Brad Bradford was like a planner and he was on the budget committee and he was on the planning and housing committee, but he didn't have like a, he wasn't like a well-known like household name.