Yep.

Yeah, and, and that was the subject of one of these books.

It was how do we facilitate play, you know? And they tried a few different methods.

They're like, "Right, should we take the kids round to these..." You know, because so much is imitative, so, so we make sure we take them to shops and take them to museums, and then that'll inform their play.

That didn't have much of an effect.

What affected it the most was just a teacher there.

Obviously, once you've provided all the sort of raw materials and space-

[laughs]

Is that right?

Well, I didn't feel like I could...

I got to the end of season three of the show and I felt that was all I had in me.

A lot of the...

A lot of the structure had changed as well of what we needed.

You know, the voices, most of them had pretty much aged out.

I'd lost all the boys.

What are you going to do with yourself now, brother, after this is done?